Henry Wirz

[Bruce Vail]

Wirz was not a citizen?

Wirz was a recent immigrant. My recollection is that he had never been naturalized.

 

[cash]

Wirz was a recent immigrant. My recollection is that he had never been naturalized.

Wirz had been in the US since 1849, had married a US citizen woman and had a child born in the US.

 

[unionblue]

No, unfortunately I do not. I spent a lot of time with my grandfather and he knew that I had more of an interest in history than all the other grandchildren so it was almost if he saw to it that he told me everything so I would pass the oral history down to the next generation. As a boy, my grandfather spoke to his grandfather just as I did with mine. His was the veteran. I was given several letters, furlough papers, his canteen and sword of his. We still own the family farm and house that he built about a decade after the war. He spoke about many hardships he endured as a soldier and about a few battles but he said nothing compared to what they went through at Pt Lookout and how lucky he was to get home. He went on to become a respected man in the county and a prosperous farmer after the war.

*Not worth my time to dignify such rubbish with a reply

Hoseman,

I'm afraid I am going to have to invoke the @Viper21 rule concerning the lack of documentation in your GGGrandfather's story. What your Grandfather believed or what he told you about your GGGrandfather, cannot be supported by just belief, no matter how strong, without historical documentation, such as a diary or letters from him at that time.

I, too, once strongly believed my own GGGrandfather enlisted because of his owing slave property, volunteering for the Confederate cause to protect his property.

Sorry, belief is not evidence, although I have no dispute with your beliefs, just the lack of hard evidence.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[WJC]

I'll stick with my GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experience as a POW at Pt Lookout.

I encourage you to do just that.
But remember, his recollections are a single data point.
We can all agree that POW facilities on both sides were terrible places. We should not, however, exaggerate the reasons for the horror and mismanagement. It is wrong to blindly assume that either side intentionally set out to starve their prisoners or kill them by exposing them to disease. As Mr. Speer said in the excerpt provided by @Copperhead-mi, "The truth is, the care and feeding of prisoners is, and always has been, the last concern—the least of any government's worries—at the beginning of any war."

 

[Pat Young]

Wirz was a recent immigrant. My recollection is that he had never been naturalized.

Not really recent, 1849. I don't know whether he naturalized, but he was eligible in 1854.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

To attack Wirz one would have to go after the commandant's of all prisons wouldn't they? Can you provide evidence he with held food or supplies? I have evidence he and commissioner Ould asked for help. I also have records where soldiers were treated. If we are going to try Wirz again the evidence is not on your side. His ancestor is seeking a pardon and I will do all I can to help.

Which means you neglected to read the trial accounts. Crusades are all very nice but mythologizing the past serves no one. It does seem handy, however. Changing narratives to the extent this man would gain a pardon flirts with martyrdom. It is a terribly dangerous prospect.

This is not ' my side '. Someone else incomprehensively created sides. This is Wirz, someone who did what he did.

 

[Viper21]

Hoseman,

I'm afraid I am going to have to invoke the @Viper21 rule concerning the lack of documentation in your GGGrandfather's story. What your Grandfather believed or what he told you about your GGGrandfather, cannot be supported by just belief, no matter how strong, without historical documentation, such as a diary or letters from him at that time.

I, too, once strongly believed my own GGGrandfather enlisted because of his owing slave property, volunteering for the Confederate cause to protect his property.

Sorry, belief is not evidence, although I have no dispute with your beliefs, just the lack of hard evidence.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Unlike Hoseman, you never even claimed oral history for your assertion. Just pure assumption.
Edited.

 

[Viper21]

My GGGrandfather, 1st Sgt Andrew Jackson Corell, 45th VA Inf .

I had an ancestor in the same unit. Mine was in Co B 45th VA Inf.

His family was from Wytheville, VA

 

[Viper21]

I had an ancestor in the same unit. Mine was in Co B 45th VA Inf.

His family was from Wytheville, VA

His father (my GGG Grandfather), enlisted in the 1st VA reserves in 1864. He was captured in spring of '65, taken to Point Lookout, & walked home after release 23 June 1865 @ the age of 60yrs old.

 

[Hoseman]

Hoseman,

I'm afraid I am going to have to invoke the @Viper21 rule concerning the lack of documentation in your GGGrandfather's story. What your Grandfather believed or what he told you about your GGGrandfather, cannot be supported by just belief, no matter how strong, without historical documentation, such as a diary or letters from him at that time.

I, too, once strongly believed my own GGGrandfather enlisted because of his owing slave property, volunteering for the Confederate cause to protect his property.

Sorry, belief is not evidence, although I have no dispute with your beliefs, just the lack of hard evidence.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Lack of evidence of what? All he said was that they lived in squalid conditions with very little food and nearly froze to death and would have most likely have frozen to death if it were not for the nuns bringing the men blankets when they had none. I have read about the place and read other former POW's accounts which has allowed me to have a better understanding about what really happened there. If he said he didn't have a blanket in the winter time and I have read several other people make the same claim, then it becomes obvious to me that the prison did not issue blankets to the men. My grandfather was the most upright, honest, honorable man I have ever known and he certainly had no reason to embellish anything he told me about his grandfather. I found it to be a great honor that he chose me to be the keeper of the oral history of our family. If you do not believe it to be true, then it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

 

[Hoseman]

I had an ancestor in the same unit. Mine was in Co B 45th VA Inf.

His family was from Wytheville, VA

Very cool! My GGGrandfather was from the next county over, Tazewell county. He and his brother went to Wytheville and enlisted together in May 1861. They were in Co G 45th VA Inf. I had another GGGrandfather from Wythe county who enlisted in the 4th VA Inf, Stonewall Brigade and he was wounded in the foot at Gettysburg and then lost an arm at Mine Run.

 

[Hoseman]

His father (my GGG Grandfather), enlisted in the 1st VA reserves in 1864. He was captured in spring of '65, taken to Point Lookout, & walked home after release 23 June 1865 @ the age of 60yrs old.

That is remarkable. My GGGrandfather walked home too. I would bet that they traveled in groups. Perhaps they made the trip together?

 

[Schwallanscher]

That is remarkable. My GGGrandfather walked home too. I would bet that they traveled in groups. Perhaps they made the trip together?

as g..grandads are single datapoints (and way too few to be statisitically relevant) they still both got home from this 'hellhole' - do we have any g..granddads who didn't?

 

[Viper21]

Lack of evidence of what? All he said was that they lived in squalid conditions with very little food and nearly froze to death and would have most likely have frozen to death if it were not for the nuns bringing the men blankets when they had none. I have read about the place and read other former POW's accounts which has allowed me to have a better understanding about what really happened there. If he said he didn't have a blanket in the winter time and I have read several other people make the same claim, then it becomes obvious to me that the prison did not issue blankets to the men. My grandfather was the most upright, honest, honorable man I have ever known and he certainly had no reason to embellish anything he told me about his grandfather. I found it to be a great honor that he chose me to be the keeper of the oral history of our family. If you do not believe it to be true, then it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

You've got it all wrong Hoseman. YOUR ancestor, just like mine, & all the other Confederates who were pow's were treated with the utmost respect, & the most humane conditions possible. All these stories of inhumane treatement are mere slandering of the Union, in an attempt to defer blame for scapegoats like Wirz.

The Union was above reproach when it came to the treatment of Confederate POW's. They couldn't possibly have tried to conceal the numbers of dead, or the inhumane conditions. Honest Abe would've disapproved of such...

 

[Michael_Schaffner]

Just think how much of this debate would never have had occasion to occur if the Confederate government hadn't passed the Retaliatory Act the same day they made the CBF part of the "White Man's Flag"...

 

[Hoseman]

You've got it all wrong Hoseman. YOUR ancestor, just like mine, & all the other Confederates who were pow's were treated with the utmost respect, & the most humane conditions possible. All these stories of inhumane treatement are mere slandering of the Union, in an attempt to defer blame for scapegoats like Wirz.

The Union was above reproach when it came to the treatment of Confederate POW's. They couldn't possibly have tried to conceal the numbers of dead, or the inhumane conditions. Honest Abe would've disapproved of such...

Exactly. I don't believe any of the "official" numbers for dead Confederates who died in prisons for one second. I was born at night but not last night. There simply is no good reason why this happened and certainly no justification. It is shameful.

 

[19thGeorgia]

So a confederate soldier was only marginally safer under the care of his own physicians than he was in a Federal prison camp, and a confederate soldier was safer as a prisoner of the Federals than he was as a soldier in the field.

You are comparing apples to oranges. The typical soldier was in service for two or three years. The prison time for the typical POW could be counted in months.

 

[19thGeorgia]

Exactly. I don't believe any of the "official" numbers for dead Confederates who died in prisons for one second. I was born at night but not last night. There simply is no good reason why this happened and certainly no justification. It is shameful.

The death rates for the major Northern prison camps are:
….
Camp Douglas 12.4%

Where on earth did you get this? A total of 26,000 POWs served time at Camp Douglas. The known deaths are about 4500. That's 17.3%. Plus there was a large number unaccounted for (1500) which would put the death rate at 23%.

 

[Stiles/Akin]

Was Henry Wirz a scapegoat for Andersonville & a vengeful North? General Grant had previously stopped the prison exchange program. Your thoughts ?

Back on tracj. Wirz was a scapegoat. The prisoner exchange program was halted. Food and supplies in the South were low so that even citizens had little food. The proof in that is what Sherman and his troops stole or destroyed when they passed through. The concern for Union prisoners was also expressed by Sherman when he left them to continue his military objectives. He was capable of taking them just as he supported the camp followers he had. Wirz should be and will be exhonerated.

 

[Hoseman]

You are comparing apples to oranges. The typical soldier was in service for two or three years. The prison time for the typical POW could be counted in months.

I should hope that any prisoner was more safe than a combat infantryman with bullets zinging past his head. Good grief.
Edited.