Henry Wirz

[cash]

Was parole violation a hanging offense? I think it was - but it was probably hard back then to find out who was violating parole.

When you have at least a company's worth of soldiers, and most probably a lot more, who hadn't been exchanged, that points to something more than individuals violating their parole.

 

[Tennessee_Mountainman]

The article shows a picture of a (confederate) medal of honour bestowed posthumously. I was unaware that Wirz did anything of particular 'honour' - was this in regard to the fact that he refused to lay blame on Davis?

Upon the outbreak of the American Civil War in 1861, 37 year-old Wirz enlisted as a private in Company A (Madison Infantry), 4th Battalion of Louisiana Infantry of the Confederate army in Madison Parish.[7][8] He took part in the Battle of Seven Pines in May 1862, during which he was wounded by a Minie ball and lost the use of his right arm. After returning to his unit on June 12, 1862, Wirz was promoted to captain "for bravery on the field of battle."[9]

wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wirz

 

[CSA Today]

As should the head person for Yankee prisons.

Them too, but also Lincoln and Grant – the two men most responsible

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Them too, but also Lincoln and Grant – the two men most responsible

Well I guess then it's tit-for-tat. Lee as the General-in-Chief of the Confederate Army and Davis as the Commander-in-Chief go to the Union POW survivors.

 

[Hoseman]

It's a myth.

"Postwar writing done about the Civil War's prisons should almost never be taken at face value as reliable primary source evidence. Both Northerners and Southerners in the half-century or so following the war exploited this issue for personal, political, and social reasons. Rarely does one find a postwar narrative, whether it be about Andersonville or Rock Island, that reads like a dispassionate attempt to accurately portray what life was like as a prisoner during the Civil War. The overwhelming majority, from both regions, are virulent polemics that often conflict with wartime records and diaries." [James M. Gillespie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 3]

My friend, Jim Epperson, who is a professional mathematician [formerly a math professor, now edits a mathematics journal], came up with some numbers he posted on USENET some time back:

[begin quote]
Numbers like this can be disputed, of course, but these are all
taken from a serious, reputable source (E.B. Long's CIVIL WAR DAY BY DAY).

Estimated US army size (total): 2,000,000
Estimated CS army size (total): 750,000

The estimates for CS army size are very elastic. Figures run as high as 1.5 million, and as low as 600,000.

Now, let's look at non-battlefield deaths, those from disease, accidents, etc.

Federal non-battlefield deaths: 219,930
CSA non-battlefield deaths: 164,000 (estimate)

Non-battle death rate for Federal troops = 11.0%
Non-battle death rate for Confederates = 21.9%
[end quote]

Here are some figures I came up with:

At Chimborazo, a confederate hospital, there were 23,849 cases of illness. Of these, 2,717 died. That's a death rate of 11.39% of those who were ill. 88.61% of the ill patients recovered.

[Source: Medical and Surgical History of the War of the Rebellion, Vol I, Part 3, pages 30 and 46]

The death rates for the major Northern prison camps are:
Alton 11.8%
Camp Chase 8.7%
Camp Douglas 12.4%
Camp Morton 10%
Fort Delaware 7.6%
Johnson's Island 2.7%
Point Lookout 5.6%
Rock Island 15.8%
Elmira 24.3%

The average death rate in Union prisons was 11.7% while the average in confederate prisons was about 15.3%
[Averages calculated by Michael Horigan in his book, Elmira: Death Camp of the North, pages 180 and 222]

So a confederate soldier was only marginally safer under the care of his own physicians than he was in a Federal prison camp, and a confederate soldier was safer as a prisoner of the Federals than he was as a soldier in the field.

I can not understand how you nor anyone else would ever try to defend or minimize the criminal behavior of the northern prison system during the war. You can try to spin it however you want but I know this is pure bull. I just went to the Descendants of Pt Lookout Associations website and the death rate for Pt Lookout was 27% according to their figures not 5.6%. In other words, take your death rate figures and multiply X 5 at least for Pt Lookout. Here is a copy and paste from the website:
"This site is dedicated to the men, women, and children who were imprisoned / perished at Point Lookout Prison Camp for Confederates from 1863 to 1865 in the state of Maryland during the War for Southern Independence. Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp filled with federal atrocities that housed over 52,000 Southerners, with a death count of over 14,000."

 

[cash]

I can not understand how you nor anyone else would ever try to defend or minimize the criminal behavior of the northern prison system during the war. You can try to spin it however you want but I know this is pure bull.

Because anyone who studies history instead of a pack of baloney knows it wasn't criminal behavior.

I just went to the Descendants of Pt Lookout Associations website and the death rate for Pt Lookout was 27% according to their figures not 5.6%. In other words, take your death rate figures and multiply X 5 at least for Pt Lookout. Here is a copy and paste from the website:
"This site is dedicated to the men, women, and children who were imprisoned / perished at Point Lookout Prison Camp for Confederates from 1863 to 1865 in the state of Maryland during the War for Southern Independence. Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp filled with federal atrocities that housed over 52,000 Southerners, with a death count of over 14,000."

Typical of the nonsense provided by heritage advocates. I don't know why they feel the need to lie so much. Perhaps it makes them feel good about themselves in some way.
Edited.

 

[Michael_Schaffner]

I can not understand how you nor anyone else would ever try to defend or minimize the criminal behavior of the northern prison system during the war. You can try to spin it however you want but I know this is pure bull. I just went to the Descendants of Pt Lookout Associations website and the death rate for Pt Lookout was 27% according to their figures not 5.6%. In other words, take your death rate figures and multiply X 5 at least for Pt Lookout. Here is a copy and paste from the website:
"This site is dedicated to the men, women, and children who were imprisoned / perished at Point Lookout Prison Camp for Confederates from 1863 to 1865 in the state of Maryland during the War for Southern Independence. Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp filled with federal atrocities that housed over 52,000 Southerners, with a death count of over 14,000."

The use of the term "genocidal" ought to tip you off to the extreme subjectivity of the source. Websites, particularly those with an obvious agenda, are probably not the best source for a reasoned discussion of actual history.

As a book on the general issue remarked about that exact passage -- and Maryland's problems with the descendants group:

"DNR's concern, understandably, is with the risk that visitors, seeing PLPOW's information and storylines provided on state land, would accept these representations, which do contain errors (many serious), as state-approved and sanctioned. For example, the descendant group claims that the number of war dead at Point Lookout amounts to 14,000 prisoners, more than three times the amount estimated by historians. PLPOW's members use this figure, which is based on anecdotal evidence and is, in the final analysis, wildly inaccurate, to argue that Camp Hoffman was worse than the infamous prison camp for Union soldiers at Andersonville."

https://books.google.com/books?id=nUi479nzegAC&lpg=PA159&ots=PDljt4SleG&dq=Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp&pg=PA162#v=onepage&q=Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp&f=false

I don't know whether you simply haven't checked the numbers or are deliberately pushing a "Lost Cause" line, but either way you might consider not doing it again, given the facts.

Thank you.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

I can not understand how you nor anyone else would ever try to defend or minimize the criminal behavior of the northern prison system during the war. You can try to spin it however you want but I know this is pure bull. I just went to the Descendants of Pt Lookout Associations website and the death rate for Pt Lookout was 27% according to their figures not 5.6%. In other words, take your death rate figures and multiply X 5 at least for Pt Lookout. Here is a copy and paste from the website:
"This site is dedicated to the men, women, and children who were imprisoned / perished at Point Lookout Prison Camp for Confederates from 1863 to 1865 in the state of Maryland during the War for Southern Independence. Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp filled with federal atrocities that housed over 52,000 Southerners, with a death count of over 14,000."

This death total given by the Descendants of Pt Lookout Association is incorrect. Lonnie R. Spears, the author of Portals to Hell - Military Prisons of the Civil War states on pg. 306 -
"At Point Lookout, Maryland, there were still 22,000 POWs being held at the end of April 1865. Eventually they were released in a combination of alphabetical order and reverse order of states that seceded from the Union. By June 30 all the prisoners had been released, but a large number of their comrades had been left behind in the numerous burial grounds around the central and northwest portions of the peninsula. Today it is known that at least 3,584 POWs died at Point Lookout.32"
Endnote 32 - "32. Beitzell, Point Lookout, p. 120. This is, without a doubt, the most accurate figure. Mr. Beitzell extensively researched the prison's history and has documented that the O.R. totals concerning deaths are wrong. Later, increased, figures placed on monuments erected at the site were also incorrect. See pages 115-75 and 198-99 of his book for details."

 

[BlueNGrey]

"First we have the fair trial, then we hang him"
-Judge Roy Bean.

 

[Hoseman]

The use of the term "genocidal" ought to tip you off to the extreme subjectivity of the source. Websites, particularly those with an obvious agenda, are probably not the best source for a reasoned discussion of actual history.

As a book on the general issue remarked about that exact passage -- and Maryland's problems with the descendants group:

"DNR's concern, understandably, is with the risk that visitors, seeing PLPOW's information and storylines provided on state land, would accept these representations, which do contain errors (many serious), as state-approved and sanctioned. For example, the descendant group claims that the number of war dead at Point Lookout amounts to 14,000 prisoners, more than three times the amount estimated by historians. PLPOW's members use this figure, which is based on anecdotal evidence and is, in the final analysis, wildly inaccurate, to argue that Camp Hoffman was worse than the infamous prison camp for Union soldiers at Andersonville."

https://books.google.com/books?id=nUi479nzegAC&lpg=PA159&ots=PDljt4SleG&dq=Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp&pg=PA162#v=onepage&q=Point Lookout was a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, concentration camp&f=false

I don't know whether you simply haven't checked the numbers or are deliberately pushing a "Lost Cause" line, but either way you might consider not doing it again, given the facts.

Thank you.

Based on the oral history passed down from my GGGrandfather regarding how he and his fellow POW's were treated, I think the word "genocidal" is pretty darn accurate regarding his and his buddies treatment during their hellish stay at Pt Lookout. I don't know, nor does anyone else, the exact figure of how many POW's died there nor how many men are buried in those mass graves. But I do know for fact that these poor men did not deserve the treatment they received and I hope that all would agree. I encourage anyone who does not know about the place to check it out and read the facts for themselves.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Based on the oral history passed down from my GGGrandfather regarding how he and his fellow POW's were treated, I think the word "genocidal" is pretty darn accurate regarding his and his buddies treatment during their hellish stay at Pt Lookout. I don't know, nor does anyone else, the exact figure of how many POW's died there nor how many men are buried in those mass graves. But I do know for fact that these poor men did not deserve the treatment they received and I hope that all would agree. I encourage anyone who does not know about the place to check it out and read the facts for themselves.

Just in case you believe that your GGGrandfather and his fellow rebel buddies were targeted for "genocidal" treatment -- which is an inaccurate, emotional description since the majority of POWs survived the Civil War, -- bear in mind the following comments about POWs in previous and subsequent wars:

"When South Carolina finally seceded from the Union and the other southern states quickly followed, one of the initial steps after uniting among themselves and organizing the Confederacy was to begin raising an army. By all appearances, they realized that the next step was war. Jefferson Davis even mentioned it himself soon after his election. The Federal government realized it too, and it reluctantly began moving its already-established army to occupy various strategic points in and around the South and along its coast, but cautioned commanders to do nothing that would ignite the conflict.10

"Still, neither side made any preparations for taking or confining prisoners. There were no efforts to organize a system until the situation was so far out of control that catch-up measures had to be initiated. By then, it was too late: The lack of centralized control and the congested conditions had produced such nightmarish problems of feeding, housing, and medical care that they would never be overcome.

"The failure to plan ahead often condemned thousands of POWs to suffering. Treatment of Civil War prisoners proved to be no different from any previous war. The sick and wounded were treated appallingly during the Crimean War, and English prisoners suffered severely in the Black Hole of Calcutta. During the Napoleonic wars, English prisoners languished in an internment camp at Verdun, while Napoleons soldiers suffered just as badly at Liverpool Gaol and Norman Cross.

"Until the Civil War, the American Revolution caused the most controversy in this country. Eventually, both wars paralleled one another in many ways: Both were fought for independence, both included cases of brother fighting against brother and father against son, and both created bitter controversy regarding the treatment of POWs held by each side.

"In the Revolution, the British confined their POWs in the hulls of ships anchored offshore. One such prisoner, held on the prison ship Jersey, wrote in August 1781 that up to eleven prisoners died each day on the ship while two hundred more sick and dying remained confined. The Colonists held their prisoners in such places as the Newgate Prison in Connecticut, which was nothing more than an old abandoned copper mine with a perpendicular fifty-foot-deep shaft as its main entrance. There, English prisoners were confined in dark, dripping, noxious underground galleries. Before long, Newgate became infamous to the British, but other holding facilities used by the Colonists were just as bad. The Continental government used whatever structures were available in addition to their jails during the war. Some of them included the Old Sugar House on Liberty Street in New York City, along with several of the city's churches. Another notorious hellhole used during this war was Waxhaws Prison in South Carolina. Like Andersonville of the Civil War, Waxhaws was well known for its brutal conditions during the Revolutionary War. These places often resulted in thousands of prisoners on both sides suffering through the same type of poor food, crowded conditions, and vermin as those who had suffered during the worlds previous wars. In the end, many hundreds on both sides died of disease, starvation, and cold.11

"The Civil War, however, was unique in two aspects: All POWs held by both sides were Americans, and the number held at any one time was higher than in any other war. The overwhelming number held, in itself, would be responsible for much suffering and death.

"But if it was simple overcrowding, the lack of planning, and the ignorance of the times, we could reasonably expect conditions in POW camps to improve in post-Civil War conflicts. Yet, over half a century later, Americans would be horrified at the stories of the Turks' treatment of prisoners during'World War I and the Japanese treatment of them in World War II. Ingolstadt would become a notorious German prisoner of war camp in World War I as would Colditz in World War II. Stalag-Luft III became as infamous to American soldiers in Europe and to their families back home as Newgate had been to the English during the American Revolution. The poor conditions of the prisons and the poor treatment of the prisoners would continue through the last half of the twentieth century in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts. With all those years of increased knowledge and technology, why would atrocities continue and conditions remain barbaric?12

"The truth is, the care and feeding of prisoners is, and always has been, the last concern—the least of any government's worries—at the beginning of any war."
Portals to Hell - Military Prisons of the Civil War, Lonnie R. Speer, pp. xv-xvii

 

[cash]

Just in case you believe that your GGGrandfather and his fellow rebel buddies were targeted for "genocidal" treatment -- which is an inaccurate, emotional description since the majority of POWs survived the Civil War, -- bear in mind the following comments about POWs in previous and subsequent wars:

"When South Carolina finally seceded from the Union and the other southern states quickly followed, one of the initial steps after uniting among themselves and organizing the Confederacy was to begin raising an army. By all appearances, they realized that the next step was war. Jefferson Davis even mentioned it himself soon after his election. The Federal government realized it too, and it reluctantly began moving its already-established army to occupy various strategic points in and around the South and along its coast, but cautioned commanders to do nothing that would ignite the conflict.10

"Still, neither side made any preparations for taking or confining prisoners. There were no efforts to organize a system until the situation was so far out of control that catch-up measures had to be initiated. By then, it was too late: The lack of centralized control and the congested conditions had produced such nightmarish problems of feeding, housing, and medical care that they would never be overcome.

"The failure to plan ahead often condemned thousands of POWs to suffering. Treatment of Civil War prisoners proved to be no different from any previous war. The sick and wounded were treated appallingly during the Crimean War, and English prisoners suffered severely in the Black Hole of Calcutta. During the Napoleonic wars, English prisoners languished in an internment camp at Verdun, while Napoleons soldiers suffered just as badly at Liverpool Gaol and Norman Cross.

"Until the Civil War, the American Revolution caused the most controversy in this country. Eventually, both wars paralleled one another in many ways: Both were fought for independence, both included cases of brother fighting against brother and father against son, and both created bitter controversy regarding the treatment of POWs held by each side.

"In the Revolution, the British confined their POWs in the hulls of ships anchored offshore. One such prisoner, held on the prison ship Jersey, wrote in August 1781 that up to eleven prisoners died each day on the ship while two hundred more sick and dying remained confined. The Colonists held their prisoners in such places as the Newgate Prison in Connecticut, which was nothing more than an old abandoned copper mine with a perpendicular fifty-foot-deep shaft as its main entrance. There, English prisoners were confined in dark, dripping, noxious underground galleries. Before long, Newgate became infamous to the British, but other holding facilities used by the Colonists were just as bad. The Continental government used whatever structures were available in addition to their jails during the war. Some of them included the Old Sugar House on Liberty Street in New York City, along with several of the city's churches. Another notorious hellhole used during this war was Waxhaws Prison in South Carolina. Like Andersonville of the Civil War, Waxhaws was well known for its brutal conditions during the Revolutionary War. These places often resulted in thousands of prisoners on both sides suffering through the same type of poor food, crowded conditions, and vermin as those who had suffered during the worlds previous wars. In the end, many hundreds on both sides died of disease, starvation, and cold.11

"The Civil War, however, was unique in two aspects: All POWs held by both sides were Americans, and the number held at any one time was higher than in any other war. The overwhelming number held, in itself, would be responsible for much suffering and death.

"But if it was simple overcrowding, the lack of planning, and the ignorance of the times, we could reasonably expect conditions in POW camps to improve in post-Civil War conflicts. Yet, over half a century later, Americans would be horrified at the stories of the Turks' treatment of prisoners during'World War I and the Japanese treatment of them in World War II. Ingolstadt would become a notorious German prisoner of war camp in World War I as would Colditz in World War II. Stalag-Luft III became as infamous to American soldiers in Europe and to their families back home as Newgate had been to the English during the American Revolution. The poor conditions of the prisons and the poor treatment of the prisoners would continue through the last half of the twentieth century in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts. With all those years of increased knowledge and technology, why would atrocities continue and conditions remain barbaric?12

"The truth is, the care and feeding of prisoners is, and always has been, the last concern—the least of any government's worries—at the beginning of any war."
Portals to Hell - Military Prisons of the Civil War, Lonnie R. Speer, pp. xv-xvii

It's always better when history replaces hysteria.

 

[CSA Today]

Well I guess then it's tit-for-tat. Lee as the General-in-Chief of the Confederate Army and Davis as the Commander-in-Chief go to the Union POW survivors.

Lee and Davis would have been delighted by a man for man exchange of POWs, that was the real reason Lincoln and Grant opposed it.

 

[Hoseman]

Just in case you believe that your GGGrandfather and his fellow rebel buddies were targeted for "genocidal" treatment -- which is an inaccurate, emotional description since the majority of POWs survived the Civil War, -- bear in mind the following comments about POWs in previous and subsequent wars:

"When South Carolina finally seceded from the Union and the other southern states quickly followed, one of the initial steps after uniting among themselves and organizing the Confederacy was to begin raising an army. By all appearances, they realized that the next step was war. Jefferson Davis even mentioned it himself soon after his election. The Federal government realized it too, and it reluctantly began moving its already-established army to occupy various strategic points in and around the South and along its coast, but cautioned commanders to do nothing that would ignite the conflict.10

"Still, neither side made any preparations for taking or confining prisoners. There were no efforts to organize a system until the situation was so far out of control that catch-up measures had to be initiated. By then, it was too late: The lack of centralized control and the congested conditions had produced such nightmarish problems of feeding, housing, and medical care that they would never be overcome.

"The failure to plan ahead often condemned thousands of POWs to suffering. Treatment of Civil War prisoners proved to be no different from any previous war. The sick and wounded were treated appallingly during the Crimean War, and English prisoners suffered severely in the Black Hole of Calcutta. During the Napoleonic wars, English prisoners languished in an internment camp at Verdun, while Napoleons soldiers suffered just as badly at Liverpool Gaol and Norman Cross.

"Until the Civil War, the American Revolution caused the most controversy in this country. Eventually, both wars paralleled one another in many ways: Both were fought for independence, both included cases of brother fighting against brother and father against son, and both created bitter controversy regarding the treatment of POWs held by each side.

"In the Revolution, the British confined their POWs in the hulls of ships anchored offshore. One such prisoner, held on the prison ship Jersey, wrote in August 1781 that up to eleven prisoners died each day on the ship while two hundred more sick and dying remained confined. The Colonists held their prisoners in such places as the Newgate Prison in Connecticut, which was nothing more than an old abandoned copper mine with a perpendicular fifty-foot-deep shaft as its main entrance. There, English prisoners were confined in dark, dripping, noxious underground galleries. Before long, Newgate became infamous to the British, but other holding facilities used by the Colonists were just as bad. The Continental government used whatever structures were available in addition to their jails during the war. Some of them included the Old Sugar House on Liberty Street in New York City, along with several of the city's churches. Another notorious hellhole used during this war was Waxhaws Prison in South Carolina. Like Andersonville of the Civil War, Waxhaws was well known for its brutal conditions during the Revolutionary War. These places often resulted in thousands of prisoners on both sides suffering through the same type of poor food, crowded conditions, and vermin as those who had suffered during the worlds previous wars. In the end, many hundreds on both sides died of disease, starvation, and cold.11

"The Civil War, however, was unique in two aspects: All POWs held by both sides were Americans, and the number held at any one time was higher than in any other war. The overwhelming number held, in itself, would be responsible for much suffering and death.

"But if it was simple overcrowding, the lack of planning, and the ignorance of the times, we could reasonably expect conditions in POW camps to improve in post-Civil War conflicts. Yet, over half a century later, Americans would be horrified at the stories of the Turks' treatment of prisoners during'World War I and the Japanese treatment of them in World War II. Ingolstadt would become a notorious German prisoner of war camp in World War I as would Colditz in World War II. Stalag-Luft III became as infamous to American soldiers in Europe and to their families back home as Newgate had been to the English during the American Revolution. The poor conditions of the prisons and the poor treatment of the prisoners would continue through the last half of the twentieth century in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts. With all those years of increased knowledge and technology, why would atrocities continue and conditions remain barbaric?12

"The truth is, the care and feeding of prisoners is, and always has been, the last concern—the least of any government's worries—at the beginning of any war."
Portals to Hell - Military Prisons of the Civil War, Lonnie R. Speer, pp. xv-xvii

I'll stick with my GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experience as a POW at Pt Lookout. Anything you say in an attempt to justify or spin the facts mean nothing to me. They didn't even build barracks for the prisoners there and all of them had only tents to live in. No blankets and very little food. Whatever ragged uniform they had on when they were captured was there only thing they had to wear or keep warm in the winter. No new clothing or shoes or blankets. Extra high tides or storms flooded the camp and there was no way to stay dry or get warm. No medicine, sanitation or proper shelter. All sorts of diseases running rampant and trigger happy guards just waiting to play games so they could shoot down any man who broke some stupid rule. Yeah it was a real picnic. I guess since they were traitors they deserved all that and more. It is a miracle that any of them ever left that place alive.

 

[unionblue]

I'll stick with my GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experience as a POW at Pt Lookout. Anything you say in an attempt to justify or spin the facts mean nothing to me. They didn't even build barracks for the prisoners there and all of them had only tents to live in. No blankets and very little food. Whatever ragged uniform they had on when they were captured was there only thing they had to wear or keep warm in the winter. No new clothing or shoes or blankets. Extra high tides or storms flooded the camp and there was no way to stay dry or get warm. No medicine, sanitation or proper shelter. All sorts of diseases running rampant and trigger happy guards just waiting to play games so they could shoot down any man who broke some stupid rule. Yeah it was a real picnic. I guess since they were traitors they deserved all that and more. It is a miracle that any of them ever left that place alive.

Hoseman,

Do you have a written account of your GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experiences?

Unionblue

 

[Pat Young]

Wirz did not get a fair trial. The military commission method of trial is designed to put a legal gloss on an inherently unfair process.

The verdict, however, was a just one. It should have been commuted by Pres. Johnson to imprisonment, though, with Wirz later deported back to Switzerland.

Wirz was not a citizen?

 

[Copperhead-mi]

I'll stick with my GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experience as a POW at Pt Lookout. Anything you say in an attempt to justify or spin the facts mean nothing to me. They didn't even build barracks for the prisoners there and all of them had only tents to live in. No blankets and very little food. Whatever ragged uniform they had on when they were captured was there only thing they had to wear or keep warm in the winter. No new clothing or shoes or blankets. Extra high tides or storms flooded the camp and there was no way to stay dry or get warm. No medicine, sanitation or proper shelter. All sorts of diseases running rampant and trigger happy guards just waiting to play games so they could shoot down any man who broke some stupid rule. Yeah it was a real picnic. I guess since they were traitors they deserved all that and more. It is a miracle that any of them ever left that place alive.

You apparently have reading comprehension problems besides anger issues since there was nothing in my post that suggested or referred to them as traitors or that the Rebel prisoners "deserved that and more." You don't like the word "Rebel?" You better take that issue up with the long dead Confederate veterans and not me because that's what they proudly called themselves during the war and afterwards. Speer also addressed in his book your none-supported, emotional charge of the Union's "genocidal" policy towards rebel prisoners (my bold):

"They began as prisons or holding facilities but, with few exceptions, quickly became nothing more than American concentration camps. Prisoners were crammed into them with complete disregard of capacity limits, hygiene, nutrition, or sanitation needs. Within a short time neither government could cope with the problems created by such a high concentration of people in such small areas or the lack of coordination within the prison system. In the end, more than 56,000 prisoners of war died in confinement, and many more were in poor or failing health when finally released.

"Neither side was more at fault than the other. The number of deaths in Confederate prisons totaled 30,218, or a little more than 15 percent of those incarcerated. In Federal prisons, there were 25,796 deaths, or slightly more than 12 percent. Although propaganda during and after the war convinced many people that the Confederate prisons were much worse than those maintained by the Union, a close examination reveals there were few differences. If Union soldiers were stricken with fear upon entering the gates of Andersonville Prison, Confederates were shocked upon learning that they were headed for Fort Delaware or Elmira prisons.

"The death rate in all the prisons amounted to nearly 13 percent of the total confined. In comparison, those who remained on the battlefield fared much better; based on available figures there, only 5 percent of the total enlistments of both sides were killed.

"When the remaining prisoners were finally released at the end of the war, they were convinced they had suffered through a conscious government effort to reduce their ranks by starvation and disease. At the same time, the public accused both sides of having used the prisoners as pawns to be sacrificed.

"In reality, though, the high mortality rate in the prisons was never intended by either side. There was never any organized effort by one government or the other to eliminate its enemy through concentration camps."
Portals To Hell - Military Prisons of the Civil War, pg. xiv

 

[cash]

I'll stick with my GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experience as a POW at Pt Lookout. Anything you say in an attempt to justify or spin the facts mean nothing to me.

Translation: "Don't bother me with the truth. I have my hysterical myths and I'm happy with them."

They didn't even build barracks for the prisoners there and all of them had only tents to live in.

So they were housed better than Union prisoners of the confederacy and just as well as Union soldiers in the field.

"In November 1863 the United States Sanitary Commission conducted an unofficial investigation of the prison and had some unflattering things to say. However, prisoners' accommodations at this former vacation resort were given fairly good reviews. 'Of their shelter there can be no possible complaint, for they all have good tents, such as wall, hospital, Sibley, wedge, shelter, hospital and wall tent flies.' The observer remarked that the tents were in good condition rather than being tattered cast-offs and he reported that their interiors offered sufficient protection from the cold. He reported that 'almost every tent throughout the camp has a fireplace and chimney built of brick made by [the prisoners] from the soil (which is clay) and sun baked.' In December 1863 Clark commented rather extensively on the prisoners' quarters, reporting that 'Nearly all of the tents are provided with fireplaces and chimneys built of bricks manufactured by the prisoners.' ... In mid-May 1864, Capotain Dickinson recorded in his diary that he and his comrades 'were quartered in large Sibley tents, which were quite comfortable.' Pictures from a prisoner's sketchbook kept from 1863 through the end of the war do not indicate that inmates' tents were dilapidated or unfit for use." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 183]

No blankets and very little food.

While there were times when some prisoners could be observed in worn clothes and without a blanket, their deficiencies may have reflected their condition upon arrival. Marston informed Hoffmann in one report that 'it has happened that on arrival of a large number of prisoners without blankets the quartermaster has not had enough to supply them, but it is not so now.' ... Thus there were times when prisoners lacked blankets but there is no contemporary evidence of a policy to deny blankets or clothing to Confederate captives at Point Lookout. The evidence tends to suggest that Northern authorities did quite a decent job making sure prisoners had clothes and blankets at the prison. ... At the end of 1863 Clark had noted that Point Lookout prisoners had a suit of clothes and a blanket, same as in the field. Nothing changed on this front in 1864 and 1865 according to inspection reports." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 184]

"Berry Benson of South Carolina was held for as time at Point Lookout and he recalled, 'As a whole, I do't think Confederate prisoners [at Point Lookout] suffered greatly for food, tho' we had none too much truly.' Four months after Point Lookout opened as a prison in August 1863, Brigadier General Gilman Marston sent a report to Hoffman in which he assured the Commissary-General of Prisoners that the Southerners under his care received 'wholesome food sufficient to insure vigorous health.' On December 1, 1863, the Commissary-Sergeant, J. H. Wilkinson, noted the prisoners got plenty to eat and were fed according to official guidelines. ... Anthony M. Clark inspected the camp as well in December 1863 and found nothing to complain about as far as food was concerned at Point Lookout. In fact, Clark noted that prisoners even gambled some of their rations away, something it is hard to imagine starving men doing. ... Henry Clay Dickinson, a Confederate captain who spent some time at Point Lookout in the middle of 1864 before being transferred to Fort Delaware, noted that the 'fare at Point Lookout was better than at any other place in which I was confined.' That may be faint praise, but Francis Atherton Boyle was there at the same time as Dickinson and he did not record any complaints about the quality or the quantity of the food he was issued in his diary. North Carolinian Barlett Yancey Malone wrote in his journal that on Christmas Day 1864 bets were made at Point Lookout on an eating contest. Wagers were made by inmates on whether or not a prisoner in the 11th Alabama could consume five pounds of bacon and three two-pound loaves of bread at a single sitting. Malone did not stick around to watch the entire episode. He got bored with it after witnessing the Alabamian down half a pound of bacon and a pound of bread." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, pp. 179-180]

Whatever ragged uniform they had on when they were captured was there only thing they had to wear or keep warm in the winter. No new clothing or shoes or blankets.

As seen from the above, this claim is another falsehood.

Extra high tides or storms flooded the camp and there was no way to stay dry or get warm.

As shown above, there were definitely ways to get warm.

No medicine, sanitation or proper shelter. All sorts of diseases running rampant

More falsehood.
"Most of the wartime evidence indicates that the prisoners' medical care was not neglected nor were prisoners denied medical treatment. A report from the Sanitary Commission in October 1863 said that the hospital was not as clean as it should have been, blankets were insufficient, and the prisoner-patients were dirty. In December Marston answered the report, which had caused Hoffman some concern though he rarely placed much stock in reports from unofficial sources. Marston assured Hoffman: 'Every bed in the hospital is supplied with two blankets. There is a laundry for cleansing the clothing of sick men and the hospital is abundantly supplied with wash basins, towels, and soap.' Sick prisoners, he said, did not have to only eat the common soldiers' rations either. The surgeon was supplied with, among other food items, 'soft crackers, fruit, beef extract, wine, jelly, and cordials.' Concerns that there was not enough medicine on hand had been addressed, he said. 'At one time,' he admitted to Hoffman, 'there was considerable delay in filling the surgeon's requisition for medicines, but during that period he was furnished with medicines from the general hospital [so the prisoners did not have to go untreated].' " [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 185]

"When examining statistics from The Medical and Surgical History for the North's nine major prisons, 90.36% of Confederate prisoners who were treated for some sort of illness recovered." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 236] According to this source, Point Lookout's recovery rate was over 90%. [p. 237] At Chimborazo Hospital in Richmond, by comparison, 88.61% of patients recovered [p. 237]. Confederates at Point Lookout were given better medical treatment than they would have received from their own doctors.

and trigger happy guards just waiting to play games so they could shoot down any man who broke some stupid rule. Yeah it was a real picnic. I guess since they were traitors they deserved all that and more. It is a miracle that any of them ever left that place alive.

"Trigger happy guards" were a feature of all prison camps. Seems ole' Great Great Grandpappy was a heck of a BS artist.

 

[Hoseman]

Hoseman,

Do you have a written account of your GGGrandfather's first hand depiction of his personal experiences?

Unionblue

No, unfortunately I do not. I spent a lot of time with my grandfather and he knew that I had more of an interest in history than all the other grandchildren so it was almost if he saw to it that he told me everything so I would pass the oral history down to the next generation. As a boy, my grandfather spoke to his grandfather just as I did with mine. His was the veteran. I was given several letters, furlough papers, his canteen and sword of his. We still own the family farm and house that he built about a decade after the war. He spoke about many hardships he endured as a soldier and about a few battles but he said nothing compared to what they went through at Pt Lookout and how lucky he was to get home. He went on to become a respected man in the county and a prosperous farmer after the war.

Translation: "Don't bother me with the truth. I have my hysterical myths and I'm happy with them."



So they were housed better than Union prisoners of the confederacy and just as well as Union soldiers in the field.

"In November 1863 the United States Sanitary Commission conducted an unofficial investigation of the prison and had some unflattering things to say. However, prisoners' accommodations at this former vacation resort were given fairly good reviews. 'Of their shelter there can be no possible complaint, for they all have good tents, such as wall, hospital, Sibley, wedge, shelter, hospital and wall tent flies.' The observer remarked that the tents were in good condition rather than being tattered cast-offs and he reported that their interiors offered sufficient protection from the cold. He reported that 'almost every tent throughout the camp has a fireplace and chimney built of brick made by [the prisoners] from the soil (which is clay) and sun baked.' In December 1863 Clark commented rather extensively on the prisoners' quarters, reporting that 'Nearly all of the tents are provided with fireplaces and chimneys built of bricks manufactured by the prisoners.' ... In mid-May 1864, Capotain Dickinson recorded in his diary that he and his comrades 'were quartered in large Sibley tents, which were quite comfortable.' Pictures from a prisoner's sketchbook kept from 1863 through the end of the war do not indicate that inmates' tents were dilapidated or unfit for use." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 183]



While there were times when some prisoners could be observed in worn clothes and without a blanket, their deficiencies may have reflected their condition upon arrival. Marston informed Hoffmann in one report that 'it has happened that on arrival of a large number of prisoners without blankets the quartermaster has not had enough to supply them, but it is not so now.' ... Thus there were times when prisoners lacked blankets but there is no contemporary evidence of a policy to deny blankets or clothing to Confederate captives at Point Lookout. The evidence tends to suggest that Northern authorities did quite a decent job making sure prisoners had clothes and blankets at the prison. ... At the end of 1863 Clark had noted that Point Lookout prisoners had a suit of clothes and a blanket, same as in the field. Nothing changed on this front in 1864 and 1865 according to inspection reports." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 184]

"Berry Benson of South Carolina was held for as time at Point Lookout and he recalled, 'As a whole, I do't think Confederate prisoners [at Point Lookout] suffered greatly for food, tho' we had none too much truly.' Four months after Point Lookout opened as a prison in August 1863, Brigadier General Gilman Marston sent a report to Hoffman in which he assured the Commissary-General of Prisoners that the Southerners under his care received 'wholesome food sufficient to insure vigorous health.' On December 1, 1863, the Commissary-Sergeant, J. H. Wilkinson, noted the prisoners got plenty to eat and were fed according to official guidelines. ... Anthony M. Clark inspected the camp as well in December 1863 and found nothing to complain about as far as food was concerned at Point Lookout. In fact, Clark noted that prisoners even gambled some of their rations away, something it is hard to imagine starving men doing. ... Henry Clay Dickinson, a Confederate captain who spent some time at Point Lookout in the middle of 1864 before being transferred to Fort Delaware, noted that the 'fare at Point Lookout was better than at any other place in which I was confined.' That may be faint praise, but Francis Atherton Boyle was there at the same time as Dickinson and he did not record any complaints about the quality or the quantity of the food he was issued in his diary. North Carolinian Barlett Yancey Malone wrote in his journal that on Christmas Day 1864 bets were made at Point Lookout on an eating contest. Wagers were made by inmates on whether or not a prisoner in the 11th Alabama could consume five pounds of bacon and three two-pound loaves of bread at a single sitting. Malone did not stick around to watch the entire episode. He got bored with it after witnessing the Alabamian down half a pound of bacon and a pound of bread." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, pp. 179-180]




As seen from the above, this claim is another falsehood.



As shown above, there were definitely ways to get warm.



More falsehood.
"Most of the wartime evidence indicates that the prisoners' medical care was not neglected nor were prisoners denied medical treatment. A report from the Sanitary Commission in October 1863 said that the hospital was not as clean as it should have been, blankets were insufficient, and the prisoner-patients were dirty. In December Marston answered the report, which had caused Hoffman some concern though he rarely placed much stock in reports from unofficial sources. Marston assured Hoffman: 'Every bed in the hospital is supplied with two blankets. There is a laundry for cleansing the clothing of sick men and the hospital is abundantly supplied with wash basins, towels, and soap.' Sick prisoners, he said, did not have to only eat the common soldiers' rations either. The surgeon was supplied with, among other food items, 'soft crackers, fruit, beef extract, wine, jelly, and cordials.' Concerns that there was not enough medicine on hand had been addressed, he said. 'At one time,' he admitted to Hoffman, 'there was considerable delay in filling the surgeon's requisition for medicines, but during that period he was furnished with medicines from the general hospital [so the prisoners did not have to go untreated].' " [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 185]

"When examining statistics from The Medical and Surgical History for the North's nine major prisons, 90.36% of Confederate prisoners who were treated for some sort of illness recovered." [James M. Gillispie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 236] According to this source, Point Lookout's recovery rate was over 90%. [p. 237] At Chimborazo Hospital in Richmond, by comparison, 88.61% of patients recovered [p. 237]. Confederates at Point Lookout were given better medical treatment than they would have received from their own doctors.





"Trigger happy guards" were a feature of all prison camps. Seems ole' Great Great Grandpappy was a heck of a BS artist.

*Not worth my time to dignify such rubbish with a reply

 

[cash]

No, unfortunately I do not. I spent a lot of time with my grandfather and he knew that I had more of an interest in history than all the other grandchildren so it was almost if he saw to it that he told me everything so I would pass the oral history down to the next generation. As a boy, my grandfather spoke to his grandfather just as I did with mine. His was the veteran. I was given several letters, furlough papers, his canteen and sword of his. We still own the family farm and house that he built about a decade after the war. He spoke about many hardships he endured as a soldier and about a few battles but he said nothing compared to what they went through at Pt Lookout and how lucky he was to get home. He went on to become a respected man in the county and a prosperous farmer after the war.

*Not worth my time to dignify such rubbish with a reply

Instructive that actual history is dismissed as "rubbish" while pure bunkum is embraced.