Henry Wirz

The Maj. Henry Wirz Memorial sponsored by the Alexander H Stephens Camp #78 SCV will be
November 11th, 2018 at Andersonville, Ga.
Wirz Memorial will start at 3:00PM with musical prelude starting at 2:30PM
As I announced, we are anticipating Colonel Heinrich Wirz from Switzerland to be in attendance this year was well. He is the great grand nephew of Major Henry Wirz.
The speaker will be Major Glen LaForce, (USA Ret.) from Charleston SC.
An attorney, LaForce wrote The Trial of Major Henry Wirz: A National Disgrace which published in The Army Lawyer, Department of the Army Pamphlet 2750-186, June 1988.
 
The Maj. Henry Wirz Memorial sponsored by the Alexander H Stephens Camp #78 SCV will be
November 11th, 2018 at Andersonville, Ga.
Wirz Memorial will start at 3:00PM with musical prelude starting at 2:30PM
As I announced, we are anticipating Colonel Heinrich Wirz from Switzerland to be in attendance this year was well. He is the great grand nephew of Major Henry Wirz.
The speaker will be Major Glen LaForce, (USA Ret.) from Charleston SC.
An attorney, LaForce wrote The Trial of Major Henry Wirz: A National Disgrace which published in The Army Lawyer, Department of the Army Pamphlet 2750-186, June 1988.

Your link : "Sorry, that page could not be found."
 
I'm finding this troubling, excusatory and disrespectful to prisoners of war. Threads on Andersonville nearly always become a brawl- as if the suffering did not occur or other suffering took precedence. It was the worst, as a mild word, for a reason. There's a reason we simply cannot forget what happens when humanity is tossed aside. Good grief, people, do we really allow ' us v them ' to intrude here, really?

It was and is documented. Has anyone read era accounts, before jumping on the poor, victimized Wirz nonsense? We document these unspeakable events for a reason- so we do not forget, so it cannot happen again, so we will not find excuses and to hear the voices of victims when barbarians lose sight of who we must be.

This is not the only post war epistle on the topic. It is horrific reading. And this is about Wirz- please open another thread over other violators. To be excusatory about Wirz is to call all these survivors into question and make Barton's graves mean nothing. I'd like to apologize for being cranky and cannot. Feeling pretty cranky.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044014479810;view=2up;seq=10;size=200

Snip from the chapters-
wirtz.JPG
 
I'm finding this troubling, excusatory and disrespectful to prisoners of war. Threads on Andersonville nearly always become a brawl- as if the suffering did not occur or other suffering took precedence. It was the worst, as a mild word, for a reason. There's a reason we simply cannot forget what happens when humanity is tossed aside. Good grief, people, do we really allow ' us v them ' to intrude here, really?

It was and is documented. Has anyone read era accounts, before jumping on the poor, victimized Wirz nonsense? We document these unspeakable events for a reason- so we do not forget, so it cannot happen again, so we will not find excuses and to hear the voices of victims when barbarians lose sight of who we must be.

This is not the only post war epistle on the topic. It is horrific reading. And this is about Wirz- please open another thread over other violators. To be excusatory about Wirz is to call all these survivors into question and make Barton's graves mean nothing. I'd like to apologize for being cranky and cannot. Feeling pretty cranky.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044014479810;view=2up;seq=10;size=200

Snip from the chapters-
View attachment 192129
To attack Wirz one would have to go after the commandant's of all prisons wouldn't they? Can you provide evidence he with held food or supplies? I have evidence he and commissioner Ould asked for help. I also have records where soldiers were treated. If we are going to try Wirz again the evidence is not on your side. His ancestor is seeking a pardon and I will do all I can to help.
 
I'm finding this troubling, excusatory and disrespectful to prisoners of war. Threads on Andersonville nearly always become a brawl- as if the suffering did not occur or other suffering took precedence. It was the worst, as a mild word, for a reason. There's a reason we simply cannot forget what happens when humanity is tossed aside. Good grief, people, do we really allow ' us v them ' to intrude here, really?

It was and is documented. Has anyone read era accounts, before jumping on the poor, victimized Wirz nonsense? We document these unspeakable events for a reason- so we do not forget, so it cannot happen again, so we will not find excuses and to hear the voices of victims when barbarians lose sight of who we must be.

This is not the only post war epistle on the topic. It is horrific reading. And this is about Wirz- please open another thread over other violators. To be excusatory about Wirz is to call all these survivors into question and make Barton's graves mean nothing. I'd like to apologize for being cranky and cannot. Feeling pretty cranky.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044014479810;view=2up;seq=10;size=200

Snip from the chapters-
View attachment 192129

I'm very glad you posted that link. The book, for those who might be too busy defending Wirz to read it, consists of excerpts from the actual trial transcript, presented by the Judge Advocate. He did this in response to the initial wave of Jim Crow-era, "Lost Cause," nuttiness about Wirz's "martyrdom" so people could know the actual basis of Wirz's conviction and execution.

For those who might think the source inherently biased, it's worth recalling that some of the strongest condemnations of conditions at Andersonville came from Confederate medical inspectors at the time, though as mentioned earlier they suggested Winder was to blame. Their report was remarked upon contemporaneously by John Jones in "A Rebel War Clerk's Diary" on December 1, 1864: "Col. Chandler, Inspecting Officer, makes an ugly report of Gen. Winder's management of the prisons in Georgia... The inspector characterizes Gen. W's treatment of the prisoners as barbarous, and their condition as a 'hell on earth.'"
 
I should add that Chipman's summary of the 5,000 page trial transcript provides examples of not just the general murderous conditions at Andersonville, but a round up of individual cases of murder by Wirz -- that is, even if one could foist all the blame for running the prison on Winder, there would still be Wirz's own capital crimes for him to answer for.
 
The Maj. Henry Wirz Memorial sponsored by the Alexander H Stephens Camp #78 SCV will be
November 11th, 2018 at Andersonville, Ga.
Wirz Memorial will start at 3:00PM with musical prelude starting at 2:30PM
As I announced, we are anticipating Colonel Heinrich Wirz from Switzerland to be in attendance this year was well. He is the great grand nephew of Major Henry Wirz.
The speaker will be Major Glen LaForce, (USA Ret.) from Charleston SC.
An attorney, LaForce wrote The Trial of Major Henry Wirz: A National Disgrace which published in The Army Lawyer, Department of the Army Pamphlet 2750-186, June 1988.
Gosh, I hope I can make it there.
 
Complete myth.

"Until June 1864 Confederates in Northern prisons were to receive the standard Federal ration, which as has been pointed out, was quite generous if nutritionally sub-par. So generous were Federal rations that officials were getting reports that prisoners and soldiers were throwing significant portions of them away. To curb what seemed to Northern officials to be wasting money, money the government did not have to waste, rations were reduced for Union soldiers and Confederate prisoners [Italics in original] in June 1864. Federal soldiers' cuts were not all that significant, declining from roughly 4,600 calories to a little over 4,400 calories, while the cuts were deeper for prisoners because they were nowhere near as active as combat soldiers. Hoffman specifically pointed out in May 1864 that while he advocated cutting rations, he urged that officials do so 'without depriving them of the food necessary to keep them in health.' This seems to suggest that Union officials did not intend to place Confederate prisoners on 'starvation rations' as so many would claim after the war and continue to argue in recent literature on the subject. Modern prisoners, beneficiaries of a slew of protective legislation and who are larger than their Civil War-era counterparts, receive between 2,500 and 2,700 calories per day." [James M. Gillespie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 99]

"According to The Medical and Surgical History of the War of the Rebellion, between February 1864 and June 1865 there were 439 cases of scurvy reported at the prison. That number accounts for 3.26% of the 13,453 diseases reported at Rock Island during that span of time and the fourteen deaths attributed to scurvy were less than 1% of the 1,589 disease fatalities. Given scurvy's relatively low numbers it seems that prisoners were not being systematically starved." [James M. Gillespie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 142]

"The Official Records and The Medical and Surgical History of the War of the Rebellion both show that mortality among Southern prisoners clearly declined over time at Rock Island. Between February 1864 and June 1865, 1,589 prisoners died of some disease, many of them during the first months of the camp's existence. Between February and April 1864 the Official Records show that 770 prisoners died at Rock Island, which constitutes 48.45% of the 1,589 deaths enumerated in The Medical and Surgical History. From April 1864 through the end of the war disease mortality declined. It is significant to note that just at the time most writers argue that Union prison policies got significantly harsher, Confederate mortality at Rock Island declined. In fact, virtually the same number of prisoners died in the three-month period between February and April 1864 (before the retaliation program was officially discussed and implemented) as perished during the period between May 1864 and June 1865. The prison's population throughout its history remained fairly constant at between 6,000 and 8,000 prisoners until it dropped to just below 3,000 in April 1865 for obvious reasons. ... Most of the mortality occurring at the depot was recorded in the first five or six months of operation. A lot of the deaths were attributable directly and indirectly to smallpox problems that erupted almost as soon as the gates opened. Records from February 1864 indicate that prisoners were transferred from the military prison in Louisville, Kentucky, who had the dreaded disease. The surgeon there, J. C. Welch, and his commanding officer, Captain Charles B. Pratt denied that prisoners were sent to Rock Island carrying smallpox--at least they were not sent there deliberately. No doubt they were telling the truth when they said that all prisoners were examined by the doctor before leaving Kentucky. The problem is that victims in the first phases of the disease, though highly contagious, often do not appear to have the disease at all." [James M. Gillespie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 145]
I beg to differ. CS prisoners suffered greatly while imprisoned due to hunger, improper sanitation, lack of adequate clothing and shelter and lack of medical care. There was a huge difference and there is no way of getting around it. The southerners could not even feed their own scarecrow soldiers in the field whereas the union army was fed extremely well. The withholding of food, clothing, medical care, etc in federal prisons was nothing short of criminal and despicable.

My GGGrandfather, 1st Sgt Andrew Jackson Corell, 45th VA Inf was captured at 3rd Winchester in Sept 1864 and sent to the hell hole known as Pt Lookout, MD. When he was finally released after the war, he walked home and his stories of his time in prison was unbelievable. Many of his friends did not survive their time at Pt Lookout. He said they had very little to eat and suffered greatly for no good reason. He also said that many more would have died had it not been for a group of Catholic nuns who came and gave them blankets and other supplies while they were there. When he finally arrived home after having walked from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay to the mountains of SW Virginia he refused to come inside the house as his clothes were so full of vermin. He still wore his uniform that he was wearing when he was captured and he made a small fire in the yard where he burned his uniform before coming in the house. This is no myth.
 
Wirz should have just been handed over to the prisoners he was placed in charge of. I'm certain they would have treated him exactly as he had treated them with the same consideration he gave them.
 
Grant did not stop the exchanges.

The exchanges were stopped because the rebels would not treat black soldiers the same as white soldiers and because they were putting men back in battle who had not yet been properly exchanged. That was done by Edwin M. Stanton in 1863.

Was parole violation a hanging offense? I think it was - but it was probably hard back then to find out who was violating parole.
 
I should add that Chipman's summary of the 5,000 page trial transcript provides examples of not just the general murderous conditions at Andersonville, but a round up of individual cases of murder by Wirz -- that is, even if one could foist all the blame for running the prison on Winder, there would still be Wirz's own capital crimes for him to answer for.
That was a built up sham.
 
I beg to differ. CS prisoners suffered greatly while imprisoned due to hunger, improper sanitation, lack of adequate clothing and shelter and lack of medical care. There was a huge difference and there is no way of getting around it. The southerners could not even feed their own scarecrow soldiers in the field whereas the union army was fed extremely well. The withholding of food, clothing, medical care, etc in federal prisons was nothing short of criminal and despicable.

My GGGrandfather, 1st Sgt Andrew Jackson Corell, 45th VA Inf was captured at 3rd Winchester in Sept 1864 and sent to the hell hole known as Pt Lookout, MD. When he was finally released after the war, he walked home and his stories of his time in prison was unbelievable. Many of his friends did not survive their time at Pt Lookout. He said they had very little to eat and suffered greatly for no good reason. He also said that many more would have died had it not been for a group of Catholic nuns who came and gave them blankets and other supplies while they were there. When he finally arrived home after having walked from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay to the mountains of SW Virginia he refused to come inside the house as his clothes were so full of vermin. He still wore his uniform that he was wearing when he was captured and he made a small fire in the yard where he burned his uniform before coming in the house. This is no myth.

It's a myth.

"Postwar writing done about the Civil War's prisons should almost never be taken at face value as reliable primary source evidence. Both Northerners and Southerners in the half-century or so following the war exploited this issue for personal, political, and social reasons. Rarely does one find a postwar narrative, whether it be about Andersonville or Rock Island, that reads like a dispassionate attempt to accurately portray what life was like as a prisoner during the Civil War. The overwhelming majority, from both regions, are virulent polemics that often conflict with wartime records and diaries." [James M. Gillespie, Andersonvilles of the North: The Myths and Realities of Northern Treatment of Civil War Confederate Prisoners, p. 3]

My friend, Jim Epperson, who is a professional mathematician [formerly a math professor, now edits a mathematics journal], came up with some numbers he posted on USENET some time back:

[begin quote]
Numbers like this can be disputed, of course, but these are all
taken from a serious, reputable source (E.B. Long's CIVIL WAR DAY BY DAY).

Estimated US army size (total): 2,000,000
Estimated CS army size (total): 750,000

The estimates for CS army size are very elastic. Figures run as high as 1.5 million, and as low as 600,000.

Now, let's look at non-battlefield deaths, those from disease, accidents, etc.

Federal non-battlefield deaths: 219,930
CSA non-battlefield deaths: 164,000 (estimate)

Non-battle death rate for Federal troops = 11.0%
Non-battle death rate for Confederates = 21.9%
[end quote]

Here are some figures I came up with:

At Chimborazo, a confederate hospital, there were 23,849 cases of illness. Of these, 2,717 died. That's a death rate of 11.39% of those who were ill. 88.61% of the ill patients recovered.

[Source: Medical and Surgical History of the War of the Rebellion, Vol I, Part 3, pages 30 and 46]

The death rates for the major Northern prison camps are:
Alton 11.8%
Camp Chase 8.7%
Camp Douglas 12.4%
Camp Morton 10%
Fort Delaware 7.6%
Johnson's Island 2.7%
Point Lookout 5.6%
Rock Island 15.8%
Elmira 24.3%

The average death rate in Union prisons was 11.7% while the average in confederate prisons was about 15.3%
[Averages calculated by Michael Horigan in his book, Elmira: Death Camp of the North, pages 180 and 222]

So a confederate soldier was only marginally safer under the care of his own physicians than he was in a Federal prison camp, and a confederate soldier was safer as a prisoner of the Federals than he was as a soldier in the field.
 

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