Help with uniform

[major bill]

OK I have over 20 books that cover Georgia uniforms. Let me glance them over.

 

[major bill]

This book shows one frock coat with black cuffs. The de Kalb Rifles.

 

[Legion Para]

Thank you Bill! That's a lot of books. I will apologize and say that I am really needing more info on Georgia units. I realize the post name and question made it seem like I was geared toward NC uniforms. That is my mistake. I have a copy of a photo that is *supposedly* a Georgian that looks a lot like the top photo. In trying to track him down to a particular unit, I knew that many times the NC had black trim as well. The intent was to see if anyone had a NC photo similar to the above (basically to see if I could say for sure he was from GA). From what I see here, the uniforms were not all that similar between the two states. Do you know of any other state (Union or Confederate) that had that black thing near the cuffs (with the three buttons)? That seems to set it off, but I do not believe that GA was the only one that had an early war uniform with these. Thanks!

There are to many variables. Please post your actual photograph.

 

[major bill]

Your bottom photo could be the Weber Confederate Guards of Company K 17th Georgia Bn Volunteer Infantry. The book Legion Para sugest has a color drawing the looks just like the photo.

 

[major bill]

These plastron patch trimmed sleeves are not to uncommon especially with militia units and early war units. Most of these had false button hole trim (ie. little squares of gold trim around each button), this is from a very old data base of mine and I will let you see if any seem to fit, again this has not been added to in years.

1. Georgia, Chinch Rifles: Green frock coat with out turn backs and green plastrons trimmed all around in yellow. Three gold buttons.
2. Illinois, Chicago Light Guard: Tail coat is white whit light blue turn backs. The plastron is light blue. Four centered gold buttons with gold lace around them.
3. Virginia, Richmond Grays: Gray jacket without turn back. Black plastrons with three gold buttons.
4. Pennsylvania, Cadwalader Grays: Light gray frock coat with matching turn backs. Black plastrons with four centered gold buttons trimmed with gold lace.
5. New York, 7th Regt. NYSM: coatee is gray with out burn backs. Plastrons are black the four centered gold buttons trimmed in gold lace.
6. New York, Washington Grays: Light gray tail coatee with black turn backs. Black plastrons with four centered gold buttons trimmed in gold lace.
7. New York, NY City Guard: White coatee with red turn backs. Red plastrons with four centered gold buttons trimmed with gold lace.
8. New York, 11th NYV officer; Blue frock coat with light blue turn backs with thin red braid at top. Blue plastrons with thin red braid and with four buttons.
9. New York, 79th Highlanders; Blue Scottish jacket with blue turn backs with thin red braid at top. Red plastrons with yellow? gray? Light blue? braid on three sides. Three gold buttons.
10. New York, 41st New York Volunteer Infantry: Blue German style coat with blue turn backs with thin red braid at top. Red plastrons with three gold buttons.
11. Virginia, Danville Blues: Blue tail coat with light colored turn backs. Blue plastrons with tree buttons.
12. Georgia, Webster Confederate Guards, Co K 17th Georgia Inf.: Gray jacket with out turn backs. Black plastrons trimmed all around in white with three buttons.
13. Alabama, Mothgomery True Blues: Dark blue coatee with red turn backs. Red plastrons with four buttons trimmed with gold lace.
14. South Carolina, Camden Light Infantry: Dark blue coatee with out turn backs. Dark blue plastrons trimmed on three sides with yellow braid and with three buttons.
15. Georgia, 5th Georgia Regt.: For dress a dark blue frock coat with out turn backs. Dark blue plastrons trimmed with yellow braid and with three buttons.
16. Virginia, Alexandria Rifles: Green frock coat without burn backs. Green plastrons trimmed in black with three buttons.
17. Virginia, Petersburg Greys Co A: Light grey coatte with out turn backs. Black plastron with three buttons trimmed with white lace.
18. Wisconsin, 8th Regt.: Gray shell jacket with out turn backs. Black plastrons with three buttons.
19. Iowa, Governor's Greys: Gray coatee with gray turn backs. Black plastrons trimmed in gold with four buttons.
20. Michigan, Detroit Light Guard: Wore dress coats of cark blue with? Dark blue turn backs. White plastrons .prosily trimmed in gold.
21. Texas, 1st Texas Cav,: Gray shell jacket Black turn back piped in white. Yellow plastron with white piping. Three buttons.
22. Texas, 26th Texas Cav.;: Gray shell jacket with green turn back. Green plastrons with three buttons.
23. Georgia 5th Inf Regt: Green frock coat with green plastrons trimmed all around in green. Three buttons.
24. Greensboro Light Artillery Guards Alabama
25. Webster Confederate Guards Georgia
26. Washington Artillery Louisiana
27. Louisiana 2st Regular Infantry Regiment
28. Watson Artillery Louisiana
29. Louisiana chasseurs a Pied
30. Lafourche Creoles Co. G 18th LA Infantry

 

[Legion Para]

http://17thgeorgia.blogspot.com/p/unit-history.html

First Sergeant (later Captain) Marmaduke H. Marshall, Co. K, 17th Georgia Infantry Regiment

Private (later First Sergeant) Armstead Goare, Co. K, 17th Georgia Infantry Regiment

 

[major bill]

The pointed false turn back cuff with the plastron above it is something I do not recall ever seeing. It is rather interesting.

 

[Legion Para]

https://www.loc.gov/resource/ppmsca.32593/

Unidentified soldier of 8th Wisconsin Infantry Regiment, with musket, bayonet, and scabbard.

 

[Klaudly]

http://17thgeorgia.blogspot.com/p/unit-history.html

First Sergeant (later Captain) Marmaduke H. Marshall, Co. K, 17th Georgia Infantry Regiment

1st Sergeant chevrons' variant? only in left sleeve and with only one stripe under diamond.

 

[GMSorrel]

Here are a few more GA boys with the plastron

Henry Clarke, 42nd GA

Must be the basis for the drawing for the "Never give up this Field" book above.

 

[GMSorrel]

GR Barrett, 11th GA(From Georgia's Confederate Sons, David Wiggins)

 

[GMSorrel]

Thomas Tate, 4th GA State Guards (From Georgia's Confederate Sons, David Wiggins)

 

[GMSorrel]

John Barrett, 7th GA (From Remembering Georgia's Confederates, David Wiggins)

 

[GMSorrel]

Isaac Reed, 7th GA (From Remembering Georgia's Confederates, David Wiggins)

 

[GMSorrel]

Thanks for all the info and especially the hand drawing! Glad to learn the proper term (plastron). Bill - what picture were you referring to when you mentioned the "pointed false turn back cuff"?

 

[GMSorrel]

And is there any way to change the name of this thread to "Georgia Uniforms"????

 

[GMSorrel]

What about this guy? Definitely not GA.
http://www.soldiercollectibles.com/CA10096017.html

 

[Legion Para]

Joseph TarpleyLowrey, 7th Georgia.

 

[major bill]

Thanks for all the info and especially the hand drawing! Glad to learn the proper term (plastron). Bill - what picture were you referring to when you mentioned the "pointed false turn back cuff"?

The very first photo seems to have a pointed cuff on the sleeve. At one time the sleeves were made with pointed ends, with the point towards the front of the sleeve. The purpose was to allow it to be pulled down and cover the top of the hand during cold weather so as to provide warmth. The ends of the sleeves was protected with cord to keep it from wearing through, over time the cords became a different color. Over time the pointed sleeve end was no longer needed and the folded pointed sleeve ends became false and no longer were functional. but the trim was still kept. An example of this is the Federal frock coats. On the Federal frock coats one could not unfold the sleeve ends to cover the hand and in fact the false cuff were no longer even double thickness. The term used for these non-functional cuffs was "false cuffs". Note modern US Army officers service coats still have a false cuff, but it is not pointed. The modern officer coats have trim where the false turn back is, senior officers have wider trim which comes from back when wealthier officers could afford wider trim.

 

[GMSorrel]

The very first photo seems to have a pointed cuff on the sleeve. At one time the sleeves were made with pointed ends, with the point towards the front of the sleeve. The purpose was to allow it to be pulled down and cover the top of the hand during cold weather so as to provide warmth. The ends of the sleeves was protected with cord to keep it from wearing through, over time the cords became a different color. Over time the pointed sleeve end was no longer needed and the folded pointed sleeve ends became false and no longer were functional. but the trim was still kept. An example of this is the Federal frock coats. On the Federal frock coats one could not unfold the sleeve ends to cover the hand and in fact the false cuff were no longer even double thickness. The term used for these non-functional cuffs was "false cuffs". Note modern US Army officers service coats still have a false cuff, but it is not pointed. The modern officer coats have trim where the false turn back is, senior officers have wider trim which comes from back when wealthier officers could afford wider trim.

Great explanation. Now I understand.