Help with identification

[Cciafox950]

Could someone please help me understand more about this rifle. Thank you.

 

[UCVRelics]

Its a VERY NICE early Smith 50 cal carbine. There were over 30K of them made and yours being serial # 103 is pre CW. From the condition I would say it lightly used. The first one that appears in the SRS is 408. It fired a paper wrap and rubber wrap cartridge as the one below. Here is a link that will help answer some of your questions.
http://www.relicman.com/weapons/Weapon2440-Breechloader-Smith-Carbine.html

 

[Cciafox950]

Its a VERY NICE early Smith 50 cal carbine. There were over 30K of them made and yours being serial # 103 is pre CW. From the condition I would say it lightly used. The first one that appears in the SRS is 408. It fired a paper wrap and rubber wrap cartridge as the one below. Here is a link that will help answer some of your questions.
http://www.relicman.com/weapons/Weapon2440-Breechloader-Smith-Carbine.html

View attachment 301657

Thank you for your help. Even though it is an early Smith could the rifle still have been used in the Civil War?

 

[Cciafox950]

Thank you for your help. Even though it is an early Smith could the rifle still have been used in the Civil War?

How about the Pony Express?

 

[zburkett]

Yes it could have been used. They were popular but it was hard to get ammunition. In one of the unit histories in my library there is mention of some of Mosby's men being very happy to get a supply of carbines and ammunition. From the condition of your carbine it may have been issued but it did not see heavy use.

 

[WJC]

Nice piece! Thanks for sharing!

 

[tbuckley]

Welcome from eastern Ohio.

 

[Cciafox950]

Yes it could have been used. They were popular but it was hard to get ammunition. In one of the unit histories in my library there is mention of some of Mosby's men being very happy to get a supply of carbines and ammunition. From the condition of your carbine it may have been issued but it did not see heavy use.

Thank you for your response.

 

[UCVRelics]

I agree with @zburkett it could have been issued but it does not show heavy use.

 

[Cciafox950]

I agree with @zburkett it could have been issued but it does not show heavy use.

Thank you for your help.

 

[captaindrew]

Nice!

 

[Cpl. Smith]

Nice Smith carbine!

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Cciafox950 - Your most excellent photos have helped a lot. This is not a Rifle, proper terminology is to call it a Cavalry Carbine. Your photos show this is a Gilbert Smith Patent breech-loading Carbine, and made under contract by the American Machine Works. Although the number on this example is 103, the American Machine Works Smith Carbines were the last ones delivered for use late in the American Civil War. Many thousands of the American Machine Works Smith Carbines ended up sitting in Government warehouses and were never issued issued. That is why so many of the American Machine Works Smith Carbines are still found in unfired condition, of which I'm sure yours is one of them. There was a sporting goods business by the name of "Klein's" (in NYC, IIRC) who was selling these unfired American Machine Works Smith Carbines, still in the dried grease, in 1920 for $2.50, which included an unopened box of original cardboard/brass foil cartridges! Yours is a premier example of an unfired Smith Carbine. The Smith patent Carbines which were issued early in the ACW, and saw service throughout the entire war were made by the Massachusetts Arms Company, and are marked "Mass. Arms Co." on the receiver.
J.

 

[JOHN42768]

Your Smith Carbine is great. JH on the wrist stands for Joseph Hannis, L.F.R. on barrel stands for Lafayette F. Rogers & G.K.C. on forend stands for George K. Charter.

 

[Cciafox950]

Cciafox950 - Your most excellent photos have helped a lot. This is not a Rifle, proper terminology is to call it a Cavalry Carbine. Your photos show this is a Gilbert Smith Patent breech-loading Carbine, and made under contract by the American Machine Works. Although the number on this example is 103, the American Machine Works Smith Carbines were the last ones delivered for use late in the American Civil War. Many thousands of the American Machine Works Smith Carbines ended up sitting in Government warehouses and were never issued issued. That is why so many of the American Machine Works Smith Carbines are still found in unfired condition, of which I'm sure yours is one of them. There was a sporting goods business by the name of "Klein's" (in NYC, IIRC) who was selling these unfired American Machine Works Smith Carbines, still in the dried grease, in 1920 for $2.50, which included an unopened box of original cardboard/brass foil cartridges! Yours is a premier example of an unfired Smith Carbine. The Smith patent Carbines which were issued early in the ACW, and saw service throughout the entire war were made by the Massachusetts Arms Company, and are marked "Mass. Arms Co." on the receiver.
J.

Thank you Jobe you have been very helpful. So if the carbine was not used in the Civil War does it negatively affect the value? P

 

[Cciafox950]

Your Smith Carbine is great. JH on the wrist stands for Joseph Hannis, L.F.R. on barrel stands for Lafayette F. Rogers & G.K.C. on forend stands for George K. Charter.

Thank you very much for the information. Very helpful.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Cciafox950 - The superb unfired condition of your Smith actually enhances the value! There was a third contractor, American Arms Co., but they are very difficult to find. Also, I had meant to note that all the manufacturer's started numbering at "1", so there are triplicate serial numbers.
J.

 

[Cciafox950]

Cciafox950 - The superb unfired condition of your Smith actually enhances the value! There was a third contractor, American Arms Co., but they are very difficult to find. Also, I had meant to note that all the manufacturer's started numbering at "1", so there are triplicate serial numbers.
J.

Thanks. Very helpful!!!!!!!!!!!