Help With Enfield

[kevikens]

I am trying to nail down an Enfield I have recently seen (sorry, no photos). It has the tower lock but no date, the British Crown and Barnett . There are various proof marks on the barrel. The arm has been well used and shows it. What I am trying to figure out is if this was an original carbine (about 20 inch barrel) or cut back musket. The front sight looks exactly like a Tower musket that I have and looks like it is not just brazed onto the barrel. The rear sight is totally different from my musket. It is not a graduated sight but is smaller and looks like it had two positions but a part of the sight is damaged. The stocks on original carbines I have seen are full stocks almost right to the muzzle but this one has been cut back about eight inches. The bore is still rifled, not made a smooth bore, and is .57 caliber.

I am thinking this might be one of those Indian muskets (or carbines) put out on the market where the guns were used by Indian troops, constabulary, in the mid to late 19th century and then put into storage (not well stored, it seems) rather than a US arm modified after the war. Is there something that I could look for that might help me better establish its provenance?

 

[johan_steele]

Look for the broad arrow inspection marks. Should be on the lock & barrel if it was ever in Brit service. I've yet to see an Indian arm w/out it.

 

[kevikens]

There are two narrow arrows on the top of the barrel near the hammer, one vertical and one horizontal. What would that indicate?

 

[hrobalabama]

Without a photo would have to guess. My guess is that is an Afghanistan Enfield.
Barnett is a London maker. However they did export "Tower" which is a BSAT mfg.(Birmingham Small Arms Trade)
Afgans are still making those. I was a gun show a few years back and a man had a whole table full of them he had brought back.
They had all kinds of marks on them. None of which were CW use.

 

[johan_steele]

Below are images of some of the Brit broad arrow markings. The Dixie Gun works catalog also has a large listing of proof marks in it.

 

[johan_steele]

Without a photo would have to guess. My guess is that is an Afghanistan Enfield.
Barnett is a London maker. However they did export "Tower" which is a BSAT mfg.(Birmingham Small Arms Trade)
Afgans are still making those. I was a gun show a few years back and a man had a whole table full of them he had brought back.
They had all kinds of marks on them. None of which were CW use.

There is a fella in the upper midwest who buys those up then cleans off the non period markings & adds his own (that's my belief) to mimick an original which he then sells as originals. He's careful to keep the price under $1000 to keep it from being felony fraud.

 

[hrobalabama]

There is a fella in the upper midwest who buys those up then cleans off the non period markings & adds his own (that's my belief) to mimick an original which he then sells as originals. He's careful to keep the price under $1000 to keep it from being felony fraud.

The man I was speaking of had two tables full of Afgan P-53's. He wanted $1,000.00 a piece.
Needles to say his sales were nil.

 

[kevikens]

This one has a CP monogram and crown with VR along with a V and two undecipherable punch marks. Any guesses on that?

 

[hrobalabama]

This one has a CP monogram and crown with VR along with a V and two undecipherable punch marks. Any guesses on that?

VR is for Queen Victoria. It could be India or any o the British empire's mandates or possessions. Did you look at the marks posted by Mr. Steele above? It was made during the reign of Queen Victoria, 1837-1901.

 

[kevikens]

Mr. Steele. I have a 2012 Dixie catalog and looked for the proof marks you mentioned but cannot seem to find British proof marks, the ones that wind up on Enfields. Dop you have a page number? Thanks