Help reading a Civil War record?

[luce31021]

I'm wondering if someone could help interpret a record for my great-great-great-great grandfather, who served in the 49th New York Infantry. It's clear that he enlisted on 8/17/1861 in Panama, NY and mustered into the regiment on 8/30/1861, and mustered out on 9/1/1863 due to disability. However, immediately below the 1863 discharge line it looks like he was also discharged 9/1/1862. Can anyone read what it says to the left of that second line? I think it might say "M.R. Oct. 31 62," but the scribbling is, to my eye, unclear. If I'm right, would that mean he was mustered back into the regiment 10/31/1862 after a temporary disability? Or do you think it says something else? He lied about his age in order to serve--while the record says he was 45 in 1861 he was actually 57, and 59 in 1863, thus the "great-great-great-great."

 

[lupaglupa]

I think it's just a typo. The official unit roster has him enlisting 17 August, 1861, mustering in 30 August, 1861, and being discharged 1 September, 1863 at Providence.

Where did he live? I looked for him in the Chautauqua town clerk's register and did not find him.

 

[luce31021]

Thanks for your evaluation. In the bottom right corner of the record it lists his residence as Harmony, NY, in Chautauqua Co. I know he'd recently moved from Vermont.

 

[Story]

Thanks for your evaluation. In the bottom right corner of the record it lists his residence as Harmony, NY, in Chautauqua Co. I know he'd recently moved from Vermont.

Check p. 1281 https://museum.dmna.ny.gov/application/files/3615/5068/0061/49th_Infantry_CW_Roster.pdf

Stephen P Lamb, born around 1829 and enlisted the same day at Panama NY as your man Russel. In fact, Russel is old enough to be his father (which would be a compelling reason to enlist at such an advanced age). Stephen ran away, tho.

 

[Story]

Thanks for your evaluation. In the bottom right corner of the record it lists his residence as Harmony, NY, in Chautauqua Co. I know he'd recently moved from Vermont.

Did you check the 1860 Federal Census?

 

[Story]

And I'll just leave this here to muddy the waters. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77622829/stephen-lamb

 

[luce31021]

Yes, Russel lived in Putney, VT in 1860.

And yes, I know about his son Stephen. I'm descended from another son William, who enlisted in Illinois and fought through 1865.

I've seen that 49th NY roster before. Would you consider that to be more trustworthy than the record I posted? If it is a typo about an 1862 discharge, I would have thought a typo would be on the first line, and the correction on the second line. But it very well could be.

 

[JeffFromSyracuse]

Couple of things.

1) Men lied about their ages all of the time. The NY regiment I study has a disproportionate number of men ages 18 and 44 on the muster rolls - because boys rounded up and older men rounded down. The demand to fill quotas was so strong that no one really batted an eye - I'd assume that's not an isolated pheomenon.
2) The MR 10/31/62 is citing the October 1862 Bi-Monthly Muster for his service status - I'd assume it's a correction because he was actually discharged in 1862, not 1863.

 

[Story]

I've seen that 49th NY roster before. Would you consider that to be more trustworthy than the record I posted? If it is a typo about an 1862 discharge, I would have thought a typo would be on the first line, and the correction on the second line. But it very well could be.

What does his Pension record have for his discharge date?

 

[luce31021]

Couple of things.

1) Men lied about their ages all of the time. The NY regiment I study has a disproportionate number of men ages 18 and 44 on the muster rolls - because boys rounded up and older men rounded down. The demand to fill quotas was so strong that no one really batted an eye - I'd assume that's not an isolated pheomenon.
2) The MR 10/31/62 is citing the October 1862 Bi-Monthly Muster for his service status - I'd assume it's a correction because he was actually discharged in 1862, not 1863.

Thanks, Jeff. I'm not surprised that men frequently lied about age, and didn't mean to imply it was an isolated case.

In any case, in your view, the record on p. 1281 here is an error (i.e., 1862 in the correct year of discharge, not 1863)? https://museum.dmna.ny.gov/application/files/3615/5068/0061/49th_Infantry_CW_Roster.pdf

 

[luce31021]

What does his Pension record have for his discharge date?

I have not seen his pension record. Is there an easy way to obtain that?

 

[huskerblitz]

I have not seen his pension record. Is there an easy way to obtain that?

You can check to see if Fold3 has it (unlikely) or you can request it from NARA. They have an online request system.

Requesting Copies of Older Military Service Records

Requesting Copies of Older (pre-WWI) Military Service Records The National Archives and Records Administration stores the following military records: Older military personnel records (generally prior to 1917) are on file at: Textual Archives Services Division Washington, DC 20408 View the Types...

www.archives.gov

 

[Story]

I have not seen his pension record. Is there an easy way to obtain that?

I don't see his name under Company G in the pension indexes

Fold3 Browse

Browse through military records by war, date, locations and name. Military records for family, persons, notables and others. The premier site for military history research for genealogists, researchers, history buffs.

www.fold3.com

nor do I see it under the Widow's Pensions

Fold3 Browse

Browse through military records by war, date, locations and name. Military records for family, persons, notables and others. The premier site for military history research for genealogists, researchers, history buffs.

www.fold3.com

So unless @lupaglupa can produce another one of her magic rabbits, I guess you're S.O.L. there.

 

[JeffFromSyracuse]

Thanks, Jeff. I'm not surprised that men frequently lied about age, and didn't mean to imply it was an isolated case.

In any case, in your view, the record on p. 1281 here is an error (i.e., 1862 in the correct year of discharge, not 1863)? https://museum.dmna.ny.gov/application/files/3615/5068/0061/49th_Infantry_CW_Roster.pdf

Oh no worries! I was just speaking in generalities because I like to.

Yes, I'd argue that the MR 10/31/62 line is a correction to the first line.

 

[lupaglupa]

I can't find anything in the pension list and there are no Lambs listed in the Chautauqua County town clerks lists. But if Russell didn't live long after the War or have a living wife no one may have filed. @luce31021 do you know anything about his life after he was discharged?

 

[luce31021]

I can't find anything in the pension list and there are no Lambs listed in the Chautauqua County town clerks lists. But if Russell didn't live long after the War or have a living wife no one may have filed. @luce31021 do you know anything about his life after he was discharged?

Thanks for checking. The last record I have is him living in Wells, VT in 1880. His wife died in 1850.

 

[luce31021]

He lived in Harmony, NY in 1875, according to the NY state census: https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:VNJT-WNK

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Yes, it appears that he was discharged for disability on 1 September, 1863, at Providence.

Think the notations written on the left-hand-side margin might mean as follows:

M.O.R. might mean Muster Out Roll

MR Oct 31' 62 might mean Muster Roll October 31 1862

Don't know why the 'MR Oct 31' 62' was entered, as it's unnecessary. Could have been an entry error, being an entry extracted from an interim period record inserted on the wrong line of sequence.

 

[lupaglupa]

Thanks for checking. The last record I have is him living in Wells, VT in 1880. His wife died in 1850.

I don't know why the town clerk's report didn't pick him up but there are errors in any system. It's interesting that he didn't apply for a federal pension - certainly he should have known that was available. But not everybody did.

 

[luce31021]

Yes, it appears that he was discharged for disability on 1 September, 1863, at Providence.

Think the notations written on the left-hand-side margin might mean as follows:

M.O.R. might mean Muster Out Roll

MR Oct 31' 62 might mean Muster Roll October 31 1862

Don't know why the 'MR Oct 31' 62' was entered, as it's unnecessary. Could have been an entry error, being an entry extracted from an interim period record inserted on the wrong line of sequence.

Thanks for your call, Nathan. JeffFromSyracuse thinks MR Oct 31' 62 cites a bi-montly muster status and is a correction to the top entry, and that he was actually discharged on 9/1/62. I wish they had just crossed out whichever line was the error.