Help me ID this sword please

Papabyrd

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Sep 28, 2021
I have in my sword collection a foot officers sword i cant find any info on. There are no markings on the sword It has a double non stopped fullers on the blade. The strange thing is the knuckle bow hand guard is held to the pommel with a screw I have never seen this before. when i bought it I thought it was confederate with the non stopped fullers on the blade but the screw in the knuckle bow makes me think other wise. Anyone know what i have ?
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bayonet

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I'm no 100% know it all and there are others here that know better BUT that screw screams repo and what material is the grip made of? From your pics it does not look leather or fishskin (shagreen) or gutta percha. Is that a felt material?
 

Papabyrd

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Sep 28, 2021
when I got it the handle was broken into about 4 pieces and you can tell the wood was very old so I put it all back together and wrapped it in a old swade coat leather I had. It is not a repo too well made and showing its age. Just don't know if its post war or from what country.
 

bayonet

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when I got it the handle was broken into about 4 pieces and you can tell the wood was very old so I put it all back together and wrapped it in a old swade coat leather I had. It is not a repo too well made and showing its age. Just don't know if its post war or from what country.
Ha I knew there was something funky about that handle, that explains it.
 

James N.

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I'm no 100% know it all and there are others here that know better BUT that screw screams repo and what material is the grip made of? From your pics it does not look leather or fishskin (shagreen) or gutta percha. Is that a felt material?
It doesn't scream repro - it screams repair. The knucklebow ends in a hook that engages a hole in the pommel cap and they can be broken off by a blow to the knucklebow at the "right" angle. Since the actual grip is made of wood beneath whatever it's covered with, one way to make a sort of crude but effective repair is to drill a hole through that part of the knucklebow and use a wood screw to secure the broken part. I've seen similar but more finished repairs utilizing a bronze peg that was then polished flat so as to be less noticeable but no less satisfactory than this simple expedient.
 

James N.

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Looks to be a copy of a French foot officer’s sword and the grip has been rewrapped with tarred canvas to make it appear Confederate. The screw is interesting and do not know of any reproductions that go to that extent.

Looks to be an amalgamation of parts, are there markings on the spine?
I'll add that if this is indeed a French M.1845 Foot Officer's Sword the shattered grip was more likely HORN rather than wood and if so had NO grip covering material, only the twisted brass wire over the bare polished horn.
 

Papabyrd

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It doesn't scream repro - it screams repair. The knucklebow ends in a hook that engages a hole in the pommel cap and they can be broken off by a blow to the knucklebow at the "right" angle. Since the actual grip is made of wood beneath whatever it's covered with, one way to make a sort of crude but effective repair is to drill a hole through that part of the knucklebow and use a wood screw to secure the broken part. I've seen similar but more finished repairs utilizing a bronze peg that was then polished flat so as to be less noticeable but no less satisfactory than this simple expedient.
James N. I have had it apart and there was never a slot for a hook in the pommel cap. It just has a threaded hole in it that lines up with the screw in the hand guard. The screw is a machine screw not a wood screw. You can tell by looking at the way it is made the screw was there when it left the factory.
 
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Sauerbier is the only maker I know of that made a foot officer sword using a screw to attach the guard to the pommel cap. Their swords did have a downturned pommel cap and unstopped fuller blade like the sword pictured here, but the example pictured in Thillmann's book is a bit different.
My first sword is a Saurerbiar foot officers sword and I believe that they contracted with Gov't for 100 of these and that is what started CW collecting disease . lol
 

bobinwmass

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I typed in Swords made by Sauerbier and this popped up It is made just like mine but a lot higher grade than mine. Mine has no engraving on the blade at all. If it ever had it is all warn away now. Thanks again guys.
Supposedly the early ones did not have the Sauerbier markings. Not sure about etching, but since they were so early it could be worn.
 

James N.

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I'll point out an unusual feature about yours that one of mine (not by Sauerbier) also shares: This basically conforms to the regulation Sword For Foot Officers (captains and lieutenants) except for the relatively small US in the design of the hilt. That, plus a steel instead of leather scabbard with crenelated brass mounts, are regulation for Officers Of The Field and Staff - majors and above. Since officers were required to purchase their own sidearms and volunteers paid little attention to the Regulations variations like this were fairly common.
 
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Something a little off the subject . To my knowledge my Sauerbier scabbard is original to the sword . When I take off the drag there is scratched in the end of the scabbard VII . # 7 ? Anybody ever seen that before ?
 

James N.

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Something a little off the subject . To my knowledge my Sauerbier scabbard is original to the sword . When I take off the drag there is scratched in the end of the scabbard VII . # 7 ? Anybody ever seen that before ?
On firearms of the same period those are pretty common and are benchmarks or assembly numbers; parts like those were mass produced and fitted up to get the best fit before actual attachment to the scabbard (or stock in the case of the hand-fitted muskets, etc.) then disassembled again, marked, and then permanently reattached with rivets and screws. The crude Roman numerals were made with chisel points for reference only since theoretically no one would ever see them again.
 

bayonet

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On firearms of the same period those are pretty common and are benchmarks or assembly numbers; parts like those were mass produced and fitted up to get the best fit before actual attachment to the scabbard (or stock in the case of the hand-fitted muskets, etc.) then disassembled again, marked, and then permanently reattached with rivets and screws. The crude Roman numerals were made with chisel points for reference only since theoretically no one would ever see them again.
earlier firearms too. As in some Brit Rev War muskets. Remove the barrel and there are roman numerical #s carved in the stock under the barrel.
 
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