Help finding a source for "why they fought."

[caller]

A common discussion we have all encountered is "why did Rebels fight" and "why did Yanks fight?" And obviously there are plenty of arguments and evidence from each side.

I, on the other hand, am looking for one (or more) primary sources for why a northern citizen went south to fight for the CSA and/or vice versa - though north going south is my original "zoning-out" thought. I would really love to find a diary, journal or collection of letters as I think that will really clarify the thinking at THAT time as opposed to the conclusions I might make. Anything that is contemporary to the war-time.

Typically I am fairly good at finding at least one example of some idea shooting through my head, but this has frustrated me. So I'm just wondering such an item exists (online anyway.)

Thanks.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

A common discussion we have all encountered is "why did Rebels fight" and "why did Yanks fight?" And obviously there are plenty of arguments and evidence from each side.

I, on the other hand, am looking for one (or more) primary sources for why a northern citizen went south to fight for the CSA and/or vice versa - though north going south is my original "zoning-out" thought. I would really love to find a diary, journal or collection of letters as I think that will really clarify the thinking at THAT time as opposed to the conclusions I might make. Anything that is contemporary to the war-time.

Typically I am fairly good at finding at least one example of some idea shooting through my head, but this has frustrated me. So I'm just wondering such an item exists (online anyway.)

Thanks.

"For Cause & Comrades : Why Men Fought In The Civil War" by James M. McPherson

 

[Drew]

"Early on in the war, a Union squad closed in on a single ragged Confederate. He didn't own any slaves, and he obviously didn't have much interest in the Constitution or anything else.

And they asked him, What are you fighting for? And he said, 'I'm fighting because you're down here.'

- Shelby Foote

 

[caller]

Thanks ,ETR, for your quick response. I have read that book. It was ok, but I would say it fits into the "common discussion" part of my initial post.

To clarify, I'm trying to find original sources in which an individual, born and raised in a manufacturing-based northern city, or other "non-slaveholding territories from the get-go" like the Northwest Territory, goes to fight for the CSA. I'm looking to get insight into why a such an individual would flee the comforts of his life and that which he knows (home, family, friends, religion, etc...) to fight for an ideology foreign to his own way of life. The Civil War was, at times, literally brother vs. brother. What made one member of a family fight for the OTHER side?

 

[caller]

"Early on in the war, a Union squad closed in on a single ragged Confederate. He didn't own any slaves, and he obviously didn't have much interest in the Constitution or anything else.

And they asked him, What are you fighting for? And he said, 'I'm fighting because you're down here.'

- Shelby Foote

I have always loved that quote - I always hope that it is a true event as I just love that wit.

Unfortunately it only explains why a southern man is fighting for the Confederate army - or at least doesn't specify that it was a northerner-turned-rebel. I don't believe a person from Pennsylvania or New York would fight for the CSA "because you're down here."

 

[Tin cup]

Here's a personal account of the conscription problem in the South:

"At the beginning of 1862 the victories had about equalled,
but the Southern army had been slowly pushed back on almost all sides, and the Southern ports were blockaded. Governor Joe Brown, of Georgia, called on the State for twelve regiments. Catoosa County had to furnish one large company. A draft was ordered to be taken March 4th; if quQta was not made up. On the 4th of March the militia was called together and formed in line, and a call made, and the men informed that if the quota was not made up a draft would be made at once. Rather than be forced to go by draft, enough
volunteered to make out the number wanted. Brother I. L. Magill joined that company. I thought I would stay at home and risk the consequences.
I began making a crop, but soon the news came that the Conscript Act had passed the Confederate Congress, which forced every man between the ages of eighteen and forty-five, (except such as were exempted by the Governor), into the Southern Army or take the consequences. This conscript law was to take effect about May 1, 1862. Brother Thomas and myself were subject to conscription. Here was a dilemma that had to be met; there were three horns tp the dilemma: Volunteer, be conscripted and placed in a company not of your own choosing and bear the odious name of conscript, or attempt to go North, turning our backs on the home of our childhood and a widowed mother, and run a risk of ten to one of being captured and shot as a traitor to the Southern cause. We chose the first, and joined the same company in which Brother I. L. Magill was, so that we might all be together."

Robert M. Magill: PERSONAL REMINISCENCES OF A CONFEDERATE SOLDIER BOY.
Volunteered at Chattanooga, Tenn., in Company F, 39th Georgia Regiment of Infantry.
https://archive.org/details/magillfamilyrec00magigoog pages 171-175 has the above segment.

Kevin Dally

 

[Rebforever]

A common discussion we have all encountered is "why did Rebels fight" and "why did Yanks fight?" And obviously there are plenty of arguments and evidence from each side.

I, on the other hand, am looking for one (or more) primary sources for why a northern citizen went south to fight for the CSA and/or vice versa - though north going south is my original "zoning-out" thought. I would really love to find a diary, journal or collection of letters as I think that will really clarify the thinking at THAT time as opposed to the conclusions I might make. Anything that is contemporary to the war-time.

Typically I am fairly good at finding at least one example of some idea shooting through my head, but this has frustrated me. So I'm just wondering such an item exists (online anyway.)

Thanks.

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Civil-War-Why-They-Fought-The-1793303

 

[rpkennedy]

A common discussion we have all encountered is "why did Rebels fight" and "why did Yanks fight?" And obviously there are plenty of arguments and evidence from each side.

I, on the other hand, am looking for one (or more) primary sources for why a northern citizen went south to fight for the CSA and/or vice versa - though north going south is my original "zoning-out" thought. I would really love to find a diary, journal or collection of letters as I think that will really clarify the thinking at THAT time as opposed to the conclusions I might make. Anything that is contemporary to the war-time.

Typically I am fairly good at finding at least one example of some idea shooting through my head, but this has frustrated me. So I'm just wondering such an item exists (online anyway.)

Thanks.

There weren't very many Northerners who fought for the South with the exception of those who married or settled in the South. For example, John C. Pemberton had married a Southern woman and had spent much of his military career in the South. Bushrod Johnson had spent much of his adult life in Kentucky and Tennessee and so went South. An enlisted man, Wesley Culp had settled in the Shenandoah Valley for work and joined a Virginia regiment.

These men had established roots in the South and went with their community during the war.

R

 

[MaryDee]

Gary Gallagher's excellent books, The Union War and The Confederate War, have lots of original sources listed in the footnotes. I don't know if they have the exact type you're looking for, but it would be worth a look.

 

[brass napoleon]

There weren't very many Northerners who fought for the South with the exception of those who married or settled in the South. For example, John C. Pemberton had married a Southern woman and had spent much of his military career in the South. Bushrod Johnson had spent much of his adult life in Kentucky and Tennessee and so went South. An enlisted man, Wesley Culp had settled in the Shenandoah Valley for work and joined a Virginia regiment.

These men had established roots in the South and went with their community during the war.

R

Exactly. If you're looking for a book about Northern men who fought for the Confederacy, it will be a pretty slim book. However, I've seen one letter written by the son of an abolitionist family in Ohio (his father even aided fugitive slaves) explaining why he was going off to fight for the Confederacy. It's in a college archive though and to my knowledge has never been published. One of these days (with the archive's permission, of course) I'm going to transcribe and publish the letter. It's quite interesting reading. But again, it's very rare.

 

[Booner]

To clarify, I'm trying to find original sources in which an individual, born and raised in a manufacturing-based northern city, or other "non-slaveholding territories from the get-go" like the Northwest Territory, goes to fight for the CSA.

You mean someone like Wesley Culp?
-->http://www.army.mil/gettysburg/profiles/culp.html

 

[7thWisconsin]

If you have the time to invest, Allan Nevins wrote a million and a half words in his 8 volume Ordeal of the Union which will pretty much answer your question. Filled with extensive quotations and excellent footnotes, it's a fairly easy series to navigate as a resource.

 

[caller]

However, I've seen one letter written by the son of an abolitionist family in Ohio (his father even aided fugitive slaves) explaining why he was going off to fight for the Confederacy. It's in a college archive though and to my knowledge has never been published. One of these days (with the archive's permission, of course) I'm going to transcribe and publish the letter. It's quite interesting reading. But again, it's very rare.

That is exactly what I am looking for. It is too bad it has not be published. Would you be permitted to tell me what college it is? I'm just looking to get a better sense why those few who changed sides did so.

 

[caller]

If you have the time to invest, Allan Nevins wrote a million and a half words in his 8 volume Ordeal of the Union which will pretty much answer your question. Filled with extensive quotations and excellent footnotes, it's a fairly easy series to navigate as a resource.

Only 1.5M words? I WAS looking for a quick read! Thanks! That does sound like a good resource. I will look into it. Thanks (for real)!

 

[brass napoleon]

That is exactly what I am looking for. It is too bad it has not be published. Would you be permitted to tell me what college it is? I'm just looking to get a better sense why those few who changed sides did so.

It's at Oberlin College, in Oberlin, Ohio

http://www.oberlin.edu/archive/index.html

 

[caller]

You mean someone like Wesley Culp?
-->http://www.army.mil/gettysburg/profiles/culp.html

How could I have forgotten him? Well done. Now to look into any letters he wrote. I did find an article (on a quick search) that appears to have a letter:
https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2013/spring/gettysburg.pdf

 

[major bill]

One thing to remember is that Northerners lived in the South before the war, but Southerners also lived in the North. I take it you are not looking for Southerners who lived in the North returning to their home state, but that you are looking for people born North and living in the North who joined the CSA.

 

[caller]

One thing to remember is that Northerners lived in the South before the war, but Southerners also lived in the North. I take it you are not looking for Southerners who lived in the North returning to their home state, but that you are looking for people born North and living in the North who joined the CSA.

That's correct. For a more modern connection, why someone who was born and raised in the UK might have gone to fight for the Nazis in WWII. In other words, what would draw (or push) someone to abandon their childhood experiences to fight for something they essentially had no experiential connection to.

 

[Sid J.]

A common discussion we have all encountered is "why did Rebels fight" and "why did Yanks fight?" And obviously there are plenty of arguments and evidence from each side.

I, on the other hand, am looking for one (or more) primary sources for why a northern citizen went south to fight for the CSA and/or vice versa - though north going south is my original "zoning-out" thought. I would really love to find a diary, journal or collection of letters as I think that will really clarify the thinking at THAT time as opposed to the conclusions I might make. Anything that is contemporary to the war-time.

Typically I am fairly good at finding at least one example of some idea shooting through my head, but this has frustrated me. So I'm just wondering such an item exists (online anyway.)

Thanks.

From That Terrible Field, Letters of James Williams, 21st AL, is the closest to your criteria that I have read. Williams was born in Ohio in 1837, moved with his family to Iowa in 1855. In 1858, he moved to Georgia where he met and married a local girl.

I didn't find Williams to be explicit in his letters about his motivations for leaving his family and northern roots behind to fight for the CSA. He expresses a desire to win independence for his nation. He rarely speaks of political issues beyond referring to Lincoln as a tyrant and the Yankees as "Northern Goths and Vandals" and "itinerant cheats."

By 1861, Williams is living in Mobile, he either owns a slave, or has use of one from his wife's family. A servant accompanies him to the Battle of Shiloh, which we learn about in his letters only when the slave goes missing for a short time on the return trip back to Mobile. Williams spent most of the war defending Mobile Bay, he occasionally refers to the Union ships sighted offshore as "Lincolnites" or "Abolitionists."

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Thanks ,ETR, for your quick response. I have read that book. It was ok, but I would say it fits into the "common discussion" part of my initial post.

To clarify, I'm trying to find original sources in which an individual, born and raised in a manufacturing-based northern city, or other "non-slaveholding territories from the get-go" like the Northwest Territory, goes to fight for the CSA. I'm looking to get insight into why a such an individual would flee the comforts of his life and that which he knows (home, family, friends, religion, etc...) to fight for an ideology foreign to his own way of life. The Civil War was, at times, literally brother vs. brother. What made one member of a family fight for the OTHER side?

You may be interested in the printed portion of this post, not so much the video. Captain Hulse fought for the Union, while two brothers and his father fought and died as Confederates.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/uni...-e-122nd-illinois-infantry.74183/#post-488513