Guerrilla armament

[Pollaco]

I've seen this topic hashed about on a differant type of forum. There was a concensus that extra cylinders were carried but in seperate revolver frames (extra pistols). No verdict was ever really reached as to "did they or didn't they?"
Didn't Clint Eastwood swap out cylinders on his Remington in the Pale Rider movie?

 

[Booner]

[QUOTE="mofederal, post: 1939001, member: 20851".........I believe I have also seen images of guerrillas carrying Remingtons.[/QUOTE]

The picture of George Maddox with his Remintons comes to mind.

 

[Booner]

I've seen this topic hashed about on a differant type of forum. There was a concensus that extra cylinders were carried but in seperate revolver frames (extra pistols). No verdict was ever really reached as to "did they or didn't they?"
Didn't Clint Eastwood swap out cylinders on his Remington in the Pale Rider movie?

I think we've come to the general conclution here that the extra cylinder - swap out thing is a figment of someone's imagination.

 

[Bee]

I think we've come to the general conclution here that the extra cylinder - swap out thing is a figment of someone's imagination.

Booner, are folks suggesting that these guys used loaded cylinders to trade out as some sort of speed loading maneuver?

 

[Patrick H]

Booner, are folks suggesting that these guys used loaded cylinders to trade out as some sort of speed loading maneuver?

Bee, I'm sure Booner will answer, too. Yes, that is exactly what has been suggested by some people. It is certainly possible, but seems unlikely to me. I think it would be much more convenient to simply switch revolvers during the fight and reload all empties later.

Maybe you've seen the movie RIDE WITH THE DEVIL. There's a scene fairly early in the movie where the boys are surrounded in a small farm house. After an intense flurry of firing out of windows (and Dutchy losing the tip of his finger), there's an eerie sound effect where they are all frantically working on their revolvers--perhaps swapping out cylinders. You will hear sounds that could be associated with that, but sound effects and frantic hand movements in a movie don't necessarily mean it was a common practice.

 

[TomV71]

Switching cylinder on a Remington can be done fast and easy, but much harder in combat with a Colt Army or Navy since you need to separate the barrel on those. Personally I would guess some carried extra cylinders, but I dont think it was especially common among other than maybe irregular troops.

 

[TomV71]

Maybe you've seen the movie RIDE WITH THE DEVIL. There's a scene fairly early in the movie where the boys are surrounded in a small farm house. After an intense flurry of firing out of windows (and Dutchy losing the tip of his finger), there's an eerie sound effect where they are all frantically working on their revolvers--perhaps swapping out cylinders. You will hear sounds that could be associated with that, but sound effects and frantic hand movements in a movie don't necessarily mean it was a common practice.

Clint Eastwood also does it in Pale Rider and Cullen Bohannon does it in Hell on Wheels so atleast it is a Hollywood thing.

 

[Booner]

Booner, are folks suggesting that these guys used loaded cylinders to trade out as some sort of speed loading maneuver?

Yes, the idea of swapping out cylinders for a fast reload technique has been bantered about for a long time. It could have been done, and perhaps it was done early in the war before a guerrilla could acumilate more revolevers, but I don't think it was a common practice. It's much more practical to carry extra revolvers, and there is plenty of historical evidence that the guerrillias did that. But I've never read anything in the historical records that a cylinder swap was practised.

Perhaps the idea of switching out cylinders had something to do with the big pockets on the "bushwhacher/guerrillia" shirts. These shirts were a modification of hunting shirts and frocks frontiermen wore prior to to war. Some of the shirts had large pockets on the front of them for storage of various items, perhaps extra caps, some paper wrapped cartridges, behaps some cornbread, etc. so why not and extra cylinder for your revolver?

But I think the idea of carrying extra cylinders in the guerrillia shirt is nothing more than shear speculation, fostered by Hollywood. It would have been an extremely difficult manuver to do, on horseback, in the middle of a fight. Anyone who has disassmbled a cap and ball revolver knows what I'm talking about. If you were in a fight and only had one revolver and in need of a reload, it would have been much better to have run away.

And with that all said, I believe I'll head out to the range to exercise one of my favorite constitutional rights.

 

[archieclement]

I think it may have been done on a limited basis if had revolvers it would be conducive for.

However I don't think it would be often done during a firefight, that's why most accounts have them carrying 4 or more revolvers. However if fighting a rearguard type action where you ambush, then fall back to set other ambushes, it would be far quicker to swap a cylinder then reload it a chamber at a time.

Tend to think it would also depend on supply and demand, think accounts had Archie Clement carrying 12 on him and his horse at time of his death, at some point it would be more practical to carry spare cylinders then keep adding guns if you were still acquiring them. Another reason for carrying so many, is imagine they could be dropped in heat of battle when switching, and if the battle goes badly, lost

 

[mofederal]

I read this account a long time ago. I wish I still had the article/book. I read this account in the 1980's. The girls wrote their experiences, so that is as much as I know. They might have been Colt cylinders. In the account the lady writing her experiences said she still had the cylinders. It was written in the late 19th century, or early 20thth century. No Hollywood then. Hollyweird might have caught on with the idea, but that lady who wrote it was long dead by then. So I leave it there. I wasn't there, but she was there. Oddly enough during WWII Audie Murphy was in an action in Southern France where his best friend was killed. Audie rushed to him and he died in Audie's arms. He said later that it was something they would write in Hollywood, but it happened to him, and he wrote about the action in detail. Things aren't always Hollywood, but I wish we really knew the truth.

 

[tbuckley]

Clint Eastwood also does it in Pale Rider and Cullen Bohannon does it in Hell on Wheels so atleast it is a Hollywood thing.

I believe that Jeff Daniels, as Joshua Chamberlain, in the movie Gettysburg changed the cylinder in his 1860 Colt. Or maybe that was in Dumb and Dumber.

 

[byron ed]

The most significant thing the Missouri Guerillas were armed with was attitude. Second most significant was lack of a conscience.

 

[archieclement]

Would think carrying up to 8 pistols wouldn't been hard at all or impractable, 4 on you, 4 in pommel holsters, after that would think you'd be putting em in saddle bags which would be harder to swap in battle. Just a question if you have access to that many.

There were CW issue pommel holsters for 2 it seems, can find online pictures of pommel holsters modified into quads, by simply sewing a holster lower down on the side of the first holster

And as pointed out in another thread Archie weighed 130lbs, a lot of the guerrillas were young boys, weight wouldn't have been much an issue with light riders from multiple handguns

 

[byron ed]

Switching cylinder on a Remington can be done fast and easy, but much harder in combat with a Colt Army or Navy since you need to separate the barrel on those. Personally I would guess some carried extra cylinders, but I dont think it was especially common among other than maybe irregular troops.

Yet leather cylinder pouches were a US issue item.

 

[Booner]

Yet leather cylinder pouches were a US issue item.

I never heard about that. Can you elaborate please.

 

[TomV71]

Yet leather cylinder pouches were a US issue item.

No, they where not.

I never heard about that. Can you elaborate please.

This is a modern thing. Even Cabellas sell them.

 

[Patrick H]

No, they where not.



This is a modern thing. Even Cabellas sell them.

But was it an historic thing? I've never heard of them, either. ...but then, I've never heard of lots of things.

 

[TomV71]

But was it an historic thing? I've never heard of them, either. ...but then, I've never heard of lots of things.

Nope just a modern thing. Basically since in modern days, cylinders on revolvers is viewed as "magazines" and you can purchase cylinders easily.
Back in the Civil War, it was much easier to carry an extra loaded revolver than carrying and changing a spare cylinder. Another point, cylinders back then followed the weapon, so you could not get another cylinder other than get one from another gun and throw away the rest of the gun. That makes no sence..

 

[Booner]

Nope just a modern thing. Basically since in modern days, cylinders on revolvers is viewed as "magazines" and you can purchase cylinders easily.
Back in the Civil War, it was much easier to carry an extra loaded revolver than carrying and changing a spare cylinder. Another point, cylinders back then followed the weapon, so you could not get another cylinder other than get one from another gun and throw away the rest of the gun. This makes no sence..

I've never heard of extra cylinders being issued, that's why I asked. And back in the day, I suppose a person might have been able to buy and additional cylinder, but my guess it would have had to have been ordered from the factory.

 

[archieclement]

I've never heard of extra cylinders being issued, that's why I asked. And back in the day, I suppose a person might have been able to buy and additional cylinder, but my guess it would have had to have been ordered from the factory.

The don't have to be issued, it seems whenever guerrillas rode into a ungarrisoned town, Unionist shopkeepers were very generous with their contributions, sometimes practically offering everything they had, including small arms, caps and powder

Almost like an old time revival in the change of heart it could bring to one