General Meade

[Richard Rosenfeldt]

Why did it take so long for General Meade to leave Taneytown for Gettysburg? He was some 14 miles away. Could he have issued his orders at Gettysburg?

 

[CMWinkler]

Welcome.

 

[rpkennedy]

Why did it take so long for General Meade to leave Taneytown for Gettysburg? He was some 14 miles away. Could he have issued his orders at Gettysburg?

He still wasn't fully committed to making a stand at Gettysburg instead of along the Pipe Creek line. He didn't make a firm decision until after he arrived and then issued orders for all commands to make their best time to Gettysburg. Basically, he was coordinating his forces, some of whom were still in Maryland, and hedging his bets as to where he was going to make his stand.

R

 

[virginiaworm]

Welcome.

On July 1 the AOP was still an army very much on the move. So was the ANV.
July 1 is still a day spent directing the concentration of the army.

"....at present, having relieved the pressure on the Susquehanna, I am now looking to the protection of Washington and fighting my army to the best advantage." - July 1 Meade to Halleck

My own opinion is that he does not know what Lee's intentions are yet. Heck, I don't think Lee knew what Lee's intentions were yet...

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

He was at the (absolutely charming) Antrim 1844 Country House Hotel and didn't want to check out before 3pm.

The Meade Room
General George Meade (1815-1872) is believed by many historians to have been the most important commander of the Civil War. He defeated Robert E. Lee at Gettysburg and led the main Union Army to Virginia until the end of the war.
Amenities: Second Floor. King-Size Featherbed. Private Bath w/ Steam Shower. Wood-Burning Fireplace. Town Side. Wireless Internet Access. Maximum Occupancy of 2. Includes afternoon tea, complimentary turndown service, evening hors d'oeuvres, continental breakfast tray with fresh muffins, morning newspaper and your choice of coffee or tea, and a full country-style served breakfast in the Mansion
Sunday through Thursday - $195
Friday - $220
Saturday - $270

I've stayed here and had the pleasure of climbing up into the cupola where Meade stood and watched his army marching past on the way to the battle.

 

[civilken]

I think he was still hoping for the generals to pick up on the Pike Creek memo he felt that would have been a much better defensive stand but Runnels has his own ideas and after Doubleday committed his troops and Howard had placed his core in position along with Hancock's advice he moved to Gettysburg.

 

[virginiaworm]

As a post script to the earlier post, redundant as that may sound....

I saw a comment in Phil Laino's map book that I do not recall reading before. It appears around 4:30 pm July1

"George Meade is at Taneytown reading dispatches from Gettysburg. None are encouraging. One message is particularly ominous. It's last 3 sentences read: 'The enemies line is a semi circle on the height from North to West. Gen Reynolds was killed this morning. In my opinion, there seems to no one directing person'. Buford added a post script:
'We need help now.'

He continues. "Meade must decide whether to remain at pipe creek or consolidate at Gettysburg. He sends Hancock to the front for more information. Meade tells Hancock to take command."

On a different subject though.... another note from Laino pg 151
"Brig gen Pendelton chief of arty for Lee's army moves Garnett's and Pogue's artillery battalions forward. Lee wanted Pendelton to deploy artillery earlier and shell Cemetery Hill, but for unkown reasons, Pendelton is slow, and his massed guns sit silent. "


Huh.... Ewell gets a ton of criticism about being slow or not seeing the opportunity to strike....
Yet Pendelton rarely, in my opinion, is mentioned as having missed the opportunity. ?
Lee issues his orders to Ewell, we all know about that. But had Confederate arty been better deployed it might have worked out different.

 

[Rebforever]

He still wasn't fully committed to making a stand at Gettysburg instead of along the Pipe Creek line. He didn't make a firm decision until after he arrived and then issued orders for all commands to make their best time to Gettysburg. Basically, he was coordinating his forces, some of whom were still in Maryland, and hedging his bets as to where he was going to make his stand.

R

Kinda having a problem with Butterfield too! He had the slows.

 

[Rebforever]

Also, welcome.

 

[rpkennedy]

Kinda having a problem with Butterfield too! He had the slows.

Who had the slows?

R

 

[Rebforever]

Who had the slows?

R

Butterfield. Passing orders for Meade.

 

[rpkennedy]

Butterfield. Passing orders for Meade.

While he and Meade didn't get along at all, he seems to have performed adequately on the run-up to the battle and during the battle. I don't see any particular actions that show that was slow to transmit orders.

R

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

Like lee says in the Gettysburg movie, Meade is new, will move slowly and has to organise

 

[virginiaworm]

Like lee says in the Gettysburg movie, Meade is new, will move slowly and has to organise

and yet Meade moved very rapidly. Lee got that wrong...

 

[Rebforever]

While he and Meade didn't get along at all, he seems to have performed adequately on the run-up to the battle and during the battle. I don't see any particular actions that show that was slow to transmit orders.

R

In the book "Meade of Gettysburg", Freeman Gleeves, Page134, third paragraph mentions that "there wasn't that much of a problem but he was getting behind in his work",

"The timing on messages and letters handled by Butterfield cannot be trusted." OR XXVII, pt I, 70-71 footnote.

 

[rpkennedy]

In the book "Meade of Gettysburg", Freeman Gleeves, Page134, third paragraph mentions that "there wasn't that much of a problem but he was getting behind in his work",

"The timing on messages and letters handled by Butterfield cannot be trusted." OR XXVII, pt I, 70-71 footnote.

Since I haven't read that particular book, I'm not sure what work he's referring to.

As for the timing, that can be said about a lot of reports. After all, there was no time standardization until after the war so the timing of a lot of actions is necessarily an estimate.

R

 

[virginiaworm]

The reference I have read is in 'Searching for Meade' on page 153. When about 11:30 Reynolds aid Capt. Weld arrived and observed Meade cursing Butterfield for his slowness getting orders out.

Meade was also kinda ****** at people on a couple of Corps staffs... and had barked at them too. Hancock's, Sickles
In his first 24 hours as commander of AOP Humphreys wrote that Meade had moved with amazing speed.

On July 1 he was still moving quickly. Wainright is quoted in Coddington as saying Meade had "demonstrated the ability to move an army quickly". Meade would not let "any grass grow beneath his feet."

Despite a few setbacks...he was effective at concentrating his army.

 

[Rebforever]

The reference I have read is in 'Searching for Meade' on page 153. When about 11:30 Reynolds aid Capt. Weld arrived and observed Meade cursing Butterfield for his slowness getting orders out.

Meade was also kinda ****** at people on a couple of Corps staffs... and had barked at them too. Hancock's, Sickles
In his first 24 hours as commander of AOP Humphreys wrote that Meade had moved with amazing speed.

On July 1 he was still moving quickly. Wainright is quoted in Coddington as saying Meade had "demonstrated the ability to move an army quickly". Meade would not let "any grass grow beneath his feet."

Despite a few setbacks...he was effective at concentrating his army.

I am not taking a thing away from General Meade. He did a fantastic job and later Butterfield was one to try to take him down over wanting to retreat which hurt Meade. It was Meade's plan before Gettysburg.

Wiki.-

After Gettysburg, Butterfield actively undermined Meade in cooperation with Maj. Gen. Daniel Sickles,[citation needed] another crony of Hooker's. Although the battle was a great Union victory, Sickles and Butterfield testified to theJoint Committee on the Conduct of the War that Meade vacillated and planned as early as July 1, to retreat from Gettysburg, thus damaging his reputation. Butterfield's chief evidence for this assertion was the Pipe Creek Circular that Meade had his staff prepare before it became apparent there would be a battle at Gettysburg.[6]

 

[virginiaworm]

I am not taking a thing away from General Meade. He did a fantastic job and later Butterfield was one to try to take him down over wanting to retreat which hurt Meade. It was Meade's plan before Gettysburg.

Wiki.-

Yeah, I didn't take it that way. I like your OR source referencing the time stamping on orders... that was new to me.
It actually made me go back and look at the last book I read. To see what was quoted there.

 

[LoriAnn]

1) @Richard Rosenfeldt , Welcome!

2)

Amenities: Second Floor. King-Size Featherbed. Private Bath w/ Steam Shower. Wood-Burning Fireplace. Town Side. Wireless Internet Access. Maximum Occupancy of 2. Includes afternoon tea, complimentary turndown service, evening hors d'oeuvres, continental breakfast tray with fresh muffins, morning newspaper and your choice of coffee or tea, and a full country-style served breakfast in the Mansion
Sunday through Thursday - $195
Friday - $220
Saturday - $270

Dear Hotel, You had me at "King-Size Featherbed. Private Bath w/ Steam Shower. Wood-Burning Fireplace."
And "afternoon tea, complimentary turndown service, evening hors d'oeuvres, continental breakfast tray...full country-style served breakfast in the Mansion."
...

And "muffins".

I was totally ready to read about Meade until you distracted me with this.