Impressions Frock coat or sack coat

[Capt7thWvCoA]

Good morning all, I'm currently debating whether I should get a Frock Coat for my impression or stay with my sack coat. The unit I want to do is the 7th WV infantry. Which would coat would have been most likely the one they wore?

 

[captaindrew]

Don't know many details about the 7th honestly but doing a quick search the only photo of the 7th I saw they were wearing sack coats (fatigue blouses) so....... Now having a frock for dress occasions would be nice but also keep in mind getting a decent quality frock is pricey, 450 - 500 or more last I looked. You'll be just fine with what you have for general purposes. If you'd like to invest in a frock for certain occasions great, they sure look sharp, but don't feel like you need to.

 

[Capt7thWvCoA]

Don't know many details about the 7th honestly but doing a quick search the only photo of the 7th I saw they were wearing sack coats (fatigue blouses) so....... Now having a frock for dress occasions would be nice but also keep in mind getting a decent quality frock is pricey, 450 - 500 or more last I looked. You'll be just fine with what you have for general purposes. If you'd like to invest in a frock for certain occasions great, they sure look sharp, but don't feel like you need to.

Thank you for the helpful insight. Would yiu apply the say logic to a officers impression ?

 

[johan_steele]

An officer wore private purchase uniforms being required to outfit themselves. I would look at what you can actually find on the unit. Wear what they did.

By the time they were raised the US had largely solved uniform and equipment shortages. So they likely received the full issue instead of partial. Forage cap & dress hat, frock and sack coat, two pair trouser, set of brogans etc.

 

[captaindrew]

Thank you for the helpful insight. Would yiu apply the say logic to a officers impression ?

You have a couple options with officer's impressions, you could go with a field officer's frock, or a private purchase sack coat. Officer's had to purchase their own so it wouldn't be issued clothing.

 

[captaindrew]

That said I normally go Confederate but occasionally do Federal campaigner events. I have one good quality basic Federal enlisted kit that covers about everything. At one event I was asked to command a company and I just couldn't afford buying a coat for a one time deal. So I put shoulder boards on my enlisted fatigue blouse and called it a day. It was one of those "stitch counter" events and nobody called me on it at all.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Just a word of advice. As an officer the pattern of the buttons is an indication of rank. You will need a sword & belt. A hat with an officer's cord & branch symbol tops off the ensemble… almost forgot the gauntlets.

My point being that an officer impression is a lot more than just a coat.

 

[captaindrew]

Doing a good officer (or NCO) impression is more about what you where also, it's how you wear it and how you carry yourself. Know your drill, know your responsibilities, and know how to interact with your group. There's much more to it than looking good. Those things are much more important to me than having everything in your kit perfect.

 

[PrivateBrooke]

I still maintain that an officer promoted through the ranks, especially a junior/company grade officer isn't going to bother spending money on a new coat until his issue gear is toast. After all he already had it, and most people back then were MUCH more frugal than us.

A private purchase sack coat would likely be the most economical option. And I think they look pretty sharp, myself.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I still maintain that an officer promoted through the ranks, especially a junior/company grade officer isn't going to bother spending money on a new coat until his issue gear is toast. After all he already had it, and most people back then were MUCH more frugal than us.

A private purchase sack coat would likely be the most economical option. And I think they look pretty sharp, myself.

I have recently been reading about the many veteranizers who became officers. As many of them noted, had the officers of 1862 been subjected to the same rigorous examination process none of them would have been commissioned. NCO's that became officers raising new state regiments & USCT units were highly experienced veterans. Needless to say, they purchased all new kit & traps that reflected their new status & responsibilities. The number & pattern of buttons on the coat was an indicator of rank the same as shoulder boards. It was regulation, not optional.

Army honors highly decorated Civil War Soldier

A Union Army war hero and Medal of Honor recipient was recognized by the Army for his brave and honorable service recently, when a past injustice was corrected.

www.army.mil

The exceptionally interesting soldier service record of John Terry includes an image of his brevet captain insignia. A brevet rank came with limited command authority & no increase in pay. The captain's tracks on Terry's collar is example of an officer who would not invest in the uniforms & traps that were what the regulations required. At an NCO or lieutenant's pay, the glorious trappings of a major or colonel would have been totally out of their reach. Terry's captain's tracks appear to be on the collar of a sack coat.

Sergeant Charles Bennett of the 9th Michigan, who has been a special study of mine. At the completion of his 3 year enlistment he vetranized. He passed his exam & became a lieutenant in the 13th USCTI. Investing in the uniform & traps of his new rank was a necessity. Bennett & the 9th camped in my yard during Forrest's Murfreesboro Raid & returned in January 1863 after Stones River. The men of the 13th included many who were from here in Rutherford County. So there is a special connection there.

During the Battle of Nashville, Bennett was a brevet major who led his men in the attack on Orchard Knob that pinned down Hood's right flank. In all likelihood, Bennett wore his major's oak leafs on the collar of his lieutenant's frock coat.

These are three examples of NCO's who became officers & exhibited different uniforms depending on circumstances.

 

[52ndFandS]

You have a couple options with officer's impressions, you could go with a field officer's frock, or a private purchase sack coat. Officer's had to purchase their own so it wouldn't be issued clothing.

Wouldn't the enlisted soldier of above the average size, I think 46 regular, have to purchase or have clothes sent from home too?

 

[52ndFandS]

Just a word of advice. As an officer the pattern of the buttons is an indication of rank. You will need a sword & belt. A hat with an officer's cord & branch symbol tops off the ensemble… almost forgot the gauntlets.

My point being that an officer impression is a lot more than just a coat.

Would that be full dress as opposed to not? Also what about eastern vs. western theaters?

 

[Rhea Cole]

Would that be full dress as opposed to not? Also what about eastern vs. western theaters?

Army regulations were the same regardless of theater. There wasn't a lot of need for full dress uniforms during the war. In the CSA the state depots had certain characteristics.

Eastern armies were referred to as 'paper collar' soldiers. Perhaps a telling example occurred when an Army of the Potomac staff officer was summoned to Grant's HQ soon after he came east. Reporting to the commander in the Army of the Potomac was a very formal affair. The staff officer donned his best uniform, had his boots shined, gathered an appropriate escort, uncased the flags & mounted up.

Arriving at Grant's boxcar HQ in light drizzle, the commanding general greeted him from the open door. They both dismounted & walked along the muddy trackside while Grant communicated in his usual concise & precise manner. Contemplating his dripping hat brim & muddy boots the staff officer realized that things were going to be very different from then on.

Re: Bruce Catton, 'Grant Takes Command' (If memory serves)

 

[captaindrew]

Wouldn't the enlisted soldier of above the average size, I think 46 regular, have to purchase or have clothes sent from home too?

If I remember right I think they did make larger sizes in limited numbers. @Package4 could probably answer this for certain.

 

[Rhea Cole]

How big were Union Army uniform sizes in the Civil War, sizes 1 to 4? Can you please provide the exact measurements?

Answer: The sizing for Union Army uniforms was, for jackets and sack coats: * Size 1 jacket fit a 36 inch chest and 32 inch waist * Size 2 fit a 38 inch chest and a 34 inch waist * Size 3 fit a 40 inch chest and a 36 inch waist * Size 4 fit a 42 inch chest and a 38 inch waist It should, perh...

www.quora.com

 

[Package4]

Good morning all, I'm currently debating whether I should get a Frock Coat for my impression or stay with my sack coat. The unit I want to do is the 7th WV infantry. Which would coat would have been most likely the one they wore?

They were issued both, but wore the sack in the field. I was lucky enough to acquire a few WV pieces of particular note is the forage cap of Charles Wells of the 14th. He was wounded in the head at Berryville recovered in Frederick, MD, but later passed on his way home to Grafton, WV.

I posted the story and pictures awhile back

 

[52ndFandS]

If I remember right I think they did make larger sizes in limited numbers. @Package4 could probably answer this for certain.

Only thing that has held me off from reenacting. Found a mid/late frock that'll fit. Stinks being a giant.

 

[captaindrew]

Only thing that has held me off from reenacting. Found a mid/late frock that'll fit. Sucks being a giant.

I hear ya, I'm a big guy too. Shouldn't be any trouble with a sack coat but frocks can be tough. I have a Confederate frock, I love it, but it's the only coat/jacket I have that just doesn't fit my size to well, like wearing a girdle. Looks good but not the most comfortable thing to wear.

 

[52ndFandS]

I hear ya, I'm a big guy too. Shouldn't be any trouble with a sack coat but frocks can be tough. I have a Confederate frock, I love it, but it's the only coat/jacket I have that just doesn't fit my size to well, like wearing a girdle. Looks good but not the most comfortable thing to wear.

I had a shell jacket and that was weird. The frock will be on the way. At least now I have a little warning it'll be kinda uncomfortable.

 

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

@Capt7thWvCoA have you considered a shell jacket?

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~go2will/genealogy/civil/index.htm

1st Lt. Abner M. Johnson, 7th West Virginia Infantry, circa 1864.