Restricted Forrest Bust at Tennessee State Capitol.

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
Of course, for another 'side' to Forrest there is his speech to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association in 1875 where Forrest said:
"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. This day is a day that is proud to me, having occupied the position that I did for the past twelve years, and been misunderstood by your race. This is the first opportunity I have had during that time to say that I am your friend. I am here a representative of the southern people, one more slandered and maligned than any man in the nation.

I will say to you and to the colored race that men who bore arms and followed the flag of the Confederacy are, with very few exceptions, your friends. I have an opportunity of saying what I have always felt—that I am your friend, for my interests are your interests, and your interests are my interests. We were born on the same soil, breathe the same air, and live in the same land. Why, then, can we not live as brothers? I will say that when the war broke out I felt it my duty to stand by my people. When the time came I did the best I could, and I don't believe I flickered. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe that I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to bring about peace. It has always been my motto to elevate every man—to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going.

I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, that you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right.

Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
This is one I actually have little objection to.

Being erected in 1978, has little historical significance in itself. Forrest wasn't a Tennessee Governor or State Representative to have much a connection to the capital, so State Tennessee Museum may be more appropriate location. And the removal of Farragut and Gleaves as well shows a rather clear consistent standard and not just a demonization of Forrest or the Confederacy.
 

Rhea Cole

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Let ‘s be candid & talk about who put up the Forrest bust & why. The modern Klan of the 20th Century had little or nothing to do with the organization that Forrest may or may not have been associated with. Strangely enough, it began as a temperance organization. Forrest, as a historical figure, had little or nothing to do with the symbolic nature that his name & image became in the middle of the 20th Century.

Both the bust in the TN State Capital & the equestrian statue in Memphis were put up in direct reaction to the civil rights movement. They were erected by segregationist white supremacists as symbols of their undying opposition to equal rights for black citizens. The newspaper accounts of the era make that abundantly clear. Kluxers were a driving force in the erection of both images of Forrest.

As students of the Civil War in 2021, we have an objective view of Forrest as a historical figure. Sadly, outside our circle of friends, Forrest is the chosen symbol of racists & as such despised. If you have ever seen the faces of students of all colors on a field trip when they see the Forrest bust, there would be no argument about whether or not to remove it. The N.B. Forrest it symbolizes has nothing to do with the CW light cavalry leader we admire.
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
Of course, for another 'side' to Forrest there is his speech to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association in 1875 where Forrest said:
"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. This day is a day that is proud to me, having occupied the position that I did for the past twelve years, and been misunderstood by your race. This is the first opportunity I have had during that time to say that I am your friend. I am here a representative of the southern people, one more slandered and maligned than any man in the nation.

I will say to you and to the colored race that men who bore arms and followed the flag of the Confederacy are, with very few exceptions, your friends. I have an opportunity of saying what I have always felt—that I am your friend, for my interests are your interests, and your interests are my interests. We were born on the same soil, breathe the same air, and live in the same land. Why, then, can we not live as brothers? I will say that when the war broke out I felt it my duty to stand by my people. When the time came I did the best I could, and I don't believe I flickered. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe that I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to bring about peace. It has always been my motto to elevate every man—to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going.

I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, that you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right.

Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."
No forgiveness, no redemption...we are in a “one and you’re done” society. One infraction of the new rules and you are condemned for life and beyond the grave.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
No forgiveness, no redemption...we are in a “one and you’re done” society. One infraction of the new rules and you are condemned for life and beyond the grave.

It's hard to comprehend that someone who is often portrayed as a committed racist and white supremacist would even attend a meeting of an association that existed to improve conditions for black people let alone say such things as Forrest did say.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Let ‘s be candid & talk about who put up the Forrest bust & why. The modern Klan of the 20th Century had little or nothing to do with the organization that Forrest may or may not have been associated with. Strangely enough, it began as a temperance organization. Forrest, as a historical figure, had little or nothing to do with the symbolic nature that his name & image became in the middle of the 20th Century.

Both the bust in the TN State Capital & the equestrian statue in Memphis were put up in direct reaction to the civil rights movement. They were erected by segregationist white supremacists as symbols of their undying opposition to equal rights for black citizens. The newspaper accounts of the era make that abundantly clear. Kluxers were a driving force in the erection of both images of Forrest.

As students of the Civil War in 2021, we have an objective view of Forrest as a historical figure. Sadly, outside our circle of friends, Forrest is the chosen symbol of racists & as such despised. If you have ever seen the faces of students of all colors on a field trip when they see the Forrest bust, there would be no argument about whether or not to remove it. The N.B. Forrest it symbolizes has nothing to do with the CW light cavalry leader we admire.
Well that would seem to speak of a failure on our educators part, if they are not presented the objective view of Forrest as a historical figure.
 

Rhea Cole

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Well that would seem to speak of a failure on our educators part, if they are not presented the objective view of Forrest as a historical figure.
I actually discussed this with some school age children. I found their responses very revealing. Forrest is recognized as a CW General. That is not the issue. The segregationists who put up the bust weren’t celebrating Forrest the general, it was Forrest the symbol of white supremacy that is in question. I was surprised that they made the distinction. It will be removed, all this is moot anyways.

Later on, One of the girls said that Forrest is more like a football mascot than a real human being. There is something to that.
 
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Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
I actually discussed this with some school age children. I found their responses very revealing. Forrest is recognized as a CW General. That is not the issue. The segregationists who put up the bust weren’t celebrating Forrest the general, it was Forrest the symbol of white supremacy that is in question. I was surprised that they made the distinction. It will be removed, all this is moot anyways.

Yes, sadly it will be removed.
It will be removed based upon a blinkered and seemingly ignorant view of the man and his achievements.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
I haven't seen any evidence it was segregationists putting it up in 1978.

And I was replying to your "As students of the Civil War in 2021, we have an objective view of Forrest as a historical figure."

If current grade or high school kids aren't getting that objective view of Forrest as a historical figure it would seem a failure on the part of educator's to provide that modern buzzword of "context"

But as I said I see little issue in moving it from the capital to the State museum, especially since it seems they aren't going to recognise non political famous Tennessee military leaders at capital as they removed Farragut and Gleaves as well.
 

Desert Kid

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Arizona
I haven't seen any evidence it was segregationists putting it up in 1978.

And I was replying to your "As students of the Civil War in 2021, we have an objective view of Forrest as a historical figure."

If current grade or high school kids aren't getting that objective view of Forrest as a historical figure it would seem a failure on the part of educator's to provide that modern buzzword of "context"

But as I said I see little issue in moving it from the capital to the State museum, especially since it seems they aren't going to recognise non political famous Tennessee military leaders at capital as they removed Farragut and Gleaves as well.
They removed Farragut too? Hadn't heard that.
 

tmorr

Private
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
As mentioned earlier, the bust was put up in the late 1970s and pics like this from The Tennessean in 1980 kinda tell you why it was put there and why it's going away.

Edited to remove modern copyrighted material.
 
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19thGeorgia

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
I haven't seen any evidence it was segregationists putting it up in 1978.
And you won't.

It was Douglas Henry (long-time political figure in Tennessee) who proposed the bust of Forrest in 1973. This was about 10 years after the end of segregation in that state. If Henry was involved in pro-segregation politics I haven't found it.
 
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Rhea Cole

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
I haven't seen any evidence it was segregationists putting it up in 1978.

And I was replying to your "As students of the Civil War in 2021, we have an objective view of Forrest as a historical figure."

If current grade or high school kids aren't getting that objective view of Forrest as a historical figure it would seem a failure on the part of educator's to provide that modern buzzword of "context"

But as I said I see little issue in moving it from the capital to the State museum, especially since it seems they aren't going to recognise non political famous Tennessee military leaders at capital as they removed Farragut and Gleaves as well.
As a Tennessean who lived through the time when the Forrest bust was installed, there were out & out Kluxers who were involved in that symbolic act. It won’t take much effort to get an eye opening contemporary lesson in segregationist actions at that time.
 

Desert Kid

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Arizona
As mentioned earlier, the bust was put up in the late 1970s and pics like this from The Tennessean in 1980 kinda tell you why it was put there and why it's going away.

Edited to remove modern copyrighted material.
The image has been removed, but I imagine you posted the image of the bust behind a bunch of goober looking Klansmen.

Just because the Klan shows up to support something doesn't 100% condemn it, we have certain flavors of racism today, literally the inverse of what the Klan preaches, being widely accepted by modern society.

Forrest would have brutally whipped anybody in that particular lot.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
As a Tennessean who lived through the time when the Forrest bust was installed, there were out & out Kluxers who were involved in that symbolic act. It won’t take much effort to get an eye opening contemporary lesson in segregationist actions at that time.
Oddly enough I googled it, and didn't find any "segregationist movement in Tennessee in 1978.

I visited Tennessee several times as well in late 70's and 80's as well as had family there, and never encountered "segregationists" or "kluxers". Was there for the World's Fair as well.
 
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