NF Formal vs self education

[E_just_E]

For what led to the Civil War:.

For what is worth, a must book on the subject is The Origin of the Late War, by George Lunt, written in 1866 & published in book form in 1867 in NY. It is much closer to the realities of the era than a lot of these 20th century treatises and looks at the origins of the world from a particular Northern perspective (non-Republican). George Lunt was from MA and the editor of Boston Currier, plus a Democratic politician.

If you want a contemporary unfiltered (without 20th Century sensitivities- and politics-driven bias) view of the War, you got to read it. It is also available for free online here.

 

[cash]

For what is worth, a must book on the subject is The Origin of the Late War, by George Lunt, written in 1866 & published in book form in 1867 in NY. It is much closer to the realities of the era than a lot of these 20th century treatises and looks at the origins of the world from a particular Northern perspective (non-Republican). George Lunt was from MA and the editor of Boston Currier, plus a Democratic politician.

If you want a contemporary unfiltered (without 20th Century sensitivities- and politics-driven bias) view of the War, you got to read it. It is also available for free online here.

Sorry, but the idea that a book written close to the time of the war is somehow more objective is simply untrue. It may not have 20th-Century sensitivities, but it most certainly has the 19th-Century sensitivities and politics-driven bias. It also lacks the sheer enormity of sources available to later historians.

Lunt was a Democrat, a doughface politician, and a defender of slavery. To think of him as unbiased is to completely ignore who he was.

This book isn't a history--it's a piece of political propaganda designed to improve the electoral chances of Democrats against Republicans.

 

[E_just_E]

Sorry, but the idea that a book written close to the time of the war is somehow more objective is simply untrue. It may not have 20th-Century sensitivities, but it most certainly has the 19th-Century sensitivities and politics-driven bias. It also lacks the sheer enormity of sources available to later historians.

Lunt was a Democrat, a doughface politician, and a defender of slavery. To think of him as unbiased is to completely ignore who he was.

This book isn't a history--it's a piece of political propaganda designed to improve the electoral chances of Democrats against Republicans.

I don't think I used the word "unbiased"

Everything is biased. My point is that his biases and sensitivities are much closer to the sensitivities of those who caused the war because they are contemporary to the war. Interestingly enough, right from the first page of his work he says that the different sensitivities ("passions") regarding slavery in the North and South was pretty much the cause of the war. Here:

Got to get a holistic side of the subject and a lot of modern scholars really throw away several views, because of lack of political correctness today. I think that a slaveholders' view of the origins of the war, a Democrats' view, a Republican's view, and an abolitionist's view are equally important to get to the bottom of things, because without one of the 4 factions above there would not be a War. Got to read what those people had to say, no matter how in principle philosophically opposed we may be to their point of view today, if we want to figure out why things happened.

And the more contemporary sources one reads, the more unfiltered information one has to form an opinion. Of course, one needs to know that a particular point of view is not the only point of view, and should be used just as a singular data point...

 

[cash]

I don't think I used the word "unbiased"

Everything is biased. My point is that his biases and sensitivities are much closer to the sensitivities of those who caused the war because they are contemporary to the war. Interestingly enough, right from the first page of his work he says that the different sensitivities ("passions") regarding slavery in the North and South was pretty much the cause of the war. Here:

Got to get a holistic side of the subject and a lot of modern scholars really throw away several views, because of lack of political correctness today. I think that a slaveholders' view of the origins of the war, a Democrats' view, a Republican's view, and an abolitionist's view are equally important to get to the bottom of things, because without one of the 4 factions above there would not be a War. Got to read what those people had to say, no matter how in principle philosophically opposed we may be to their point of view today, if we want to figure out why things happened.

And the more contemporary sources one reads, the more unfiltered information one has to form an opinion. Of course, one needs to know that a particular point of view is not the only point of view, and should be used just as a singular data point...

We can't assume the view is unfiltered, especially with Lunt. Lunt is filtering everything himself, through his own political desires.

 

[E_just_E]

We can't assume the view is unfiltered, especially with Lunt. Lunt is filtering everything himself, through his own political desires.

True. But it is an 1860s filter and not a 1980s+ filter. Every view is filtered. That one is filtered closer to the source, by the same filter a lot of the people who caused the War filtered things. Just a data point.

 

[Hunter]

True. But it is an 1860s filter and not a 1980s+ filter. Every view is filtered. That one is filtered closer to the source, but the same filter a lot of the people who caused the War filtered things. Just a data point.

In my experience, books are a good source of basic information on what happened and when it happened. In order to gain an accurate understanding about why things happened and the motivations of the people, however, primary source materials are essential. Even with that, reaching a correct conclusion is tricky and sometimes impossible.

 

[cash]

True. But it is an 1860s filter and not a 1980s+ filter. Every view is filtered. That one is filtered closer to the source, by the same filter a lot of the people who caused the War filtered things. Just a data point.

It's an 1860s filter specifically to gain political advantage. There's absolutely no reason to presume any 1860s filter is in any way preferable to a viewpoint from later in time. In fact, because more sources are available later, and because the political passions of the time have subsided, it's actually more preferable to have viewpoints from later in time.

 

[SharonS]

Being in possession of expensive degrees totally unrelated to the work I ended up doing, I would second (or third...or fourth) the idea of self-directed reading. I will add, however, that it's not such a bad thing to be forced to do research papers. You end up reading in areas you might not have considered otherwise, analyzing material with a particularly critical eye, and making decisions on what's important and what isn't. I also found some assignments to be a little like a treasure hunt and loved to find nuggets that the important authors had missed.

 

[cash]

Awesome, Cash. Thank you. Looks like I will be busy for years but well worth the time.

You might also be interested in this list:
http://www.gettysburg.edu/academics/cwes/resources/literature/top200.dot

 

[48th Miss.]

It's an 1860s filter specifically to gain political advantage. There's absolutely no reason to presume any 1860s filter is in any way preferable to a viewpoint from later in time. In fact, because more sources are available later, and because the political passions of the time have subsided, it's actually more preferable to have viewpoints from later in time.

You might also be interested in this list:
http://www.gettysburg.edu/academics/cwes/resources/literature/top200.dot

I just went to that link. What a list!! I have printed this thread and am in the process of printing the list you have referenced. I believe i will average the two together and start there. Thank you for your contribution to my studies. By chance do you live in NC. There are two Cash brothers who are CW buffs just up the road from me?? Met one Saturday while I was doing a firing detail at a War memorial.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eric, impressive post. I have printed this thread since it linked to a thread on Standard Civil War Refernce Works. Sorry i dont know how to add the link here. I was wondering if you could review the books listed and based on your experience pick the top 10 as it pertains to the War. I am more interested in causes of the War and how to better understand the right and wrong of it. Secondly what the average soldier went through and thought of the Cause on both sides. I have a few letters and scrapbooks from my GGGrandfather Frank H. Foote but not a lot of the little details and no opinion as to why he fought in it other than pride in his State. He spent a lot of time writting about parts of the War and collecting information on the locals who were there. He died while employeed by Vicksburg National Park after 18 years of service to them. Any help would be appreciated.

I would be happy to do so, but I am in Gettysburg for the annual Civil War Trust conference. I have an all-day bus tour to lead tomorrow and a half day tour to lead on Saturday. I will be home on Sunday night, and will try to spend some time on it once I get back to Ohio. I apologize for the delay and appreciate your understanding.

 

[cash]

I just went to that link. What a list!! I have printed this thread and am in the process of printing the list you have referenced. I believe i will average the two together and start there. Thank you for your contribution to my studies. By chance do you live in NC. There are two Cash brothers who are CW buffs just up the road from me?? Met one Saturday while I was doing a firing detail at a War memorial.

Not me, not related. Cash is a call sign, not a family name.

 

[cash]

I would be happy to do so, but I am in Gettysburg for the annual Civil War Trust conference. I have an all-day bus tour to lead tomorrow and a half day tour to lead on Saturday. I will be home on Sunday night, and will try to spend some time on it once I get back to Ohio. I apologize for the delay and appreciate your understanding.

I might see you around on Saturday, Eric. I'm doing the Ranger Hike with Caitlin that morning.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

I might see you around on Saturday, Eric. I'm doing the Ranger Hike with Caitlin that morning.

And I will be pleased to see you, Al.

 

[48th Miss.]

I would be happy to do so, but I am in Gettysburg for the annual Civil War Trust conference. I have an all-day bus tour to lead tomorrow and a half day tour to lead on Saturday. I will be home on Sunday night, and will try to spend some time on it once I get back to Ohio. I apologize for the delay and appreciate your understanding.

Excellent, Thank you. I will use it to compare and narrow where i start. Just a note on Gettysburg. If memory serves my GGGd said in one of his writings that he was one of the last of his command to leave the field at Gettysburg. I believe he was foraging with a few others. He served with the 48th Miss. He returned for the 50th reunion and had a grand time with all as it was most hospitable. He sent back several stories that were printed in the paper and I have a letter he wrote July 9th 1863 from Hagars Town Md just after the battle to his sisters and brothers. It was reprinted in the Vicksburg Evening Post on 19 July 1913. FYI, I found several of your books on Abebooks.com. Some seem very interesting (book on Custer's command) and I have noted them for future readings, others just a little too focused for me at my level of CW education, at least for now. Enjoy your outing and thank you again.

As an aside. The Foote side of the Family came from Ohio and settled in Port Gibson Ms.

 

[Rank and File]

You have the one thing that we all have on this board - passion about the CW. Let it take you where it will.
And welcome!

 

[dlavin]

For me, there is a slim likelihood of going back to school even if I wanted to, which I dont really want to do. Thus all my "education" comes from books and wonderful sites such as this one. Hopefully I've never made the claim as a "know it all" here, lol I better not have, but I enjoy reading on this subject for sure

 

[civilken]

Speaking for myself school was like a job I did it to get ahead at my job. History is a love I do it because I really enjoy I can honestly say over the past 20 or so years I have read well over 1000 books and yes the ones you mentioned. I have belonged to several roundtables and trusts and into hundreds of lectures and God willing I will read another thousand and go to more lectures because it is not school it is a passion.

 

[tonijustine]

I went through the free Open Yale Course on the Civil War and Reconstruction by Dr. David Blight, plus the associated readings. http://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-119#overview

Two weekends ago, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my Iphone from my sad, sorry little 8 GB 4 to a 64 GB 6s. I now have enough memory to download Dr. Blight's course (which is on ITunes University for free download) and I started listening today. Just the first introductory lecture gave me lots to think about. This is going to be a great learning opportunity.

 

[tonijustine]

Two weekends ago, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my Iphone from my sad, sorry little 8 GB 4 to a 64 GB 6s. I now have enough memory to download Dr. Blight's course (which is on ITunes University for free download) and I started listening today. Just the first introductory lecture gave me lots to think about. This is going to be a great learning opportunity.

I also wanted to share the accompanying reading list for this class. The class was recorded in 2008, so some newer titles are not in the reading list, but it does give a good idea of the content of the course:

Bruce Levine, Half Slave and Half Free: The Roots of the Civil War. Hill and Wang.

David Blight, Why the Civil War Came. New York: Oxford University.

Charles R. Dew, Apostles of Disunion: Southern Secession Commissioners and the Causes of the Civil War. University of Virginia Press.

Drew G. Faust, Mothers of Invention: Women of the Slaveholding South in the American Civil War. University of North Carolina Press.

E. L. Doctorow, The March. Random House.

Eric Foner, A Short History of Reconstruction, 1863-1877. Harper & Row.

Frederick Douglass, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, An American Slave, ed. by David W. Blight. Bedford Books.

Gary Gallagher, The Confederate War: How Popular Will, Nationalism, and Military Strategy Could Not Stave Off Defeat. Harvard University Press.

James M. McPherson, Battle Cry of Freedom. Oxford University Press.

Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, ed. by Alice Fahs. Bedford Books.

Michael P. Johnson, ed., Abraham Lincoln, Slavery, and the Civil War. Bedford Books.

Nicholas Lemann, Redemption: The Last Battle of the Civil War. Farrar Strauss Giroux.

William Gienapp, ed., Civil War and Reconstruction: A Documentary Collection. Norton.