NF Formal vs self education

Non-Fiction
TimR said:
As a new member and someone newly interested in the Civil War, I've been trying to figure out the most effective way to immerse myself in deeper learning while maintaining that pesky full-time job.
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I've toyed with the idea of taking some online course, but my self-educating approach for almost a year now is just to read. I go to the downtown library, check out a book, read it, return it, and get another. Wash, rinse, repeat. It doesn't cost me a thing, I can read at my own pace and when I have the time (often during my lunch hour), and there's no end of semester test to cram for. If your local library is anything like mine, there are multiple shelves full of books on the Civil War, on many topics and from many perspectives. And I do buy books as well, so I have them in my personal library for reference or re-reading whenever I like.

I started reading Shelby Foote's "Civil War: A Narrative" to give me a basic, broad overview of the history. It's easy to read, and it covers a ton of the people and battles of the war. After that, whenever I read a book that goes more in-depth on a person or topic, I know the context a lot better than I otherwise would.

The other thing I've begun to participate in is re-enacting. I don't know how 100% historically accurate my group is, but even so... marching with that heavy musket, wearing those wool uniforms under the hot sun and loading and firing on the go helps me appreciate a bit more what those soldiers experienced, though of course I'm not really getting shot at, thankfully! :smile:
 
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MaryDee said:
I went through the free Open Yale Course on the Civil War and Reconstruction by Dr. David Blight, plus the associated readings. http://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-119#overview
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I can only support this. Good lectures and all the reading material and even the "paper assignments" is accessible.
You can also get it on a smart phone with the app "iTunes U"
The lectures can both be accessed as video and just as the sound.
 
If you are doing it for personal enrichment, my first suggestion would be to keep an open mind, look for statements that are backed by sources as close to the time as possible and question any "facts" that are not so, no matter how ingrained in the ACW lore they are.

Taking a course at some place might help give you an overview, but not sure that the $ (esp. since it comes with a certificate) would get you anything more than you can get by reading a basic fairly objective text on the subject, like Harry Hansen's one volume. Then I am sure that there are a lot of things that would grab your interests, being battles, campaigns, military tactics, or personalities, human stories etc. Many many many ways to go, and only you would know which one is the one for you :)

Just watch out for "facts"
 
Hello and welcome from Central Indiana!

I took a Civil War class in college, but was not at a point in my education I could get the most out of it. It is one of a very few regrets I have about college. I squandered my one chance at a formal education on the Civil War.

If you are looking for a course taught by an expert and the above free classes don't do it for you, Gary Gallagher's Civil War Course for The Great Courses was a very nice option. It is 48 half hour lectures available in video or audio only (I listed to the CDs in my car). It is a nice overview. Right now it costs about $250 and up, but it will go on sale (it does a couple times a year) and then will cost about $45-$60 depending on the delivery format or if you want video or audio.
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/american-civil-war.html

I will say that I have learned a lot by travelling to the battlefields, taking tours with the rangers, and (when I am extremely lucky) getting to talk to a ranger one on one for an extended period. I visited Shiloh last month and got to talk to Ranger Chris Mekow (who plays PGT Beauregard in the park's visitor's center film) for about an hour about all kinds of things.

And books. Lots and lots of books. I will listen to a book on Audible and buy the book for the citations. I will read something on here, and it will sound interesting and I will buy a book about it. I will read about an incident in a general history book and buy a book about that particular incident....I am a squirrel, it turns out.

Good luck!
 
Welcome from Southern Oregon (northern Jefferson).

I'd agree with the others that if it's just for self enrichment then formal coursework is likely more costly than necessary (in both convenience and monetary terms). You do need to start broad and then work your way down; i.e. get a good overview and then chase the details. Start with David Potter's The Impending Crisis, Gallagher's DVD course, and McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom. Then look at their bibliographies for the next places you might want to look.

This site has a good list of standard reference works which I'd recommend you check out also:

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/standard-civil-war-reference-works.84521/

Then start collecting bottles and cans along the highway to pay for all the books and such you'll soon find that you "need." You are at the start of a long path if you really want to understand the Civil War era.
 
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Old_Glory said:
The biggest problem with courses is potential bias of the instructor and the material they use. If you want to teach history, then you have no choice but to take the courses. If you just want to do it for fun, buy books that interest you from both perspectives of the War. You will learn a heck of a lot more that way.
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This is my humble opinion as I have not pursued an advanced degree in History but the impression I got was that you would have to write a research paper or select a topic. For the most part, you would be researching a new field that ends up being something obscure to main interest of most of us which are the battles and leaders. IMHO.
I know someone who completed his degree and it was related to the culture of the agrarian Southen farmer and reasons to go to war or to stay at home.
 
The big advantage of the free online courses (listed above) is that, in addition to being free, you don't have to write the research paper or take exams! Just be sure to coordinate the readings with the lectures (which means you can progress at your own speed instead of being forced to burn the midnight oil to prepare for an exam!). I wish Prof. Gallagher's course was free because he's by far my favorite lecturer! If, like me, you can't afford the Gallagher CDs, a lot of his lectures on various CW subjects are on youtube and can be used to supplement Blight or Foner at appropriate points in the course.

Once you've followed the lectures and read the basic stuff, you'll have the broad picture and can start branching out into details--preferably from source documents--and different points of view. My personal area is life on the Northern home front, especially for women, plus learning about period fabrics and sewing techniques for women's wear. (This all relates to my reenacting role as an elderly Yankee lady interested in supporting "our boys.") However, I keep getting distracted by histories of battles, especially Gettysburg (probably because of that darn movie and my first reenactment).
 
DixieRifles said:
This is my humble opinion as I have not pursued an advanced degree in History but the impression I got was that you would have to write a research paper or select a topic.
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I did pursue the advanced degree, and yes, term papers are mandatory. The typical graduate class grade is based on a midterm, a final and the term paper. And you don't always get to write the paper you want, either. And typically you get to read at least one Battle Cry length book a week. Multiply that by the number of classes a week you're taking, and you get an idea of the workload in a semester. I'd rather have the time back and the money I spent on books to spend on Civil War books instead. The knowledge gained for the degree was nice, but the knowledge for the Civil War would have been far better to gain. Oh well.
 
TimR said:
As a new member and someone newly interested in the Civil War, I've been trying to figure out the most effective way to immerse myself in deeper learning while maintaining that pesky full-time job.

I was considering the Civil War graduate certificate from AMU. From what I read in other postings on the forum, it appears to be a good program (but a lot of work possibly.) I have a Bachelor's and a Master's in an unrelated field, but I was also thinking some of those credits could transfer and apply towards an Associate's or Bachelor's degree in history (unless it was at AMU, it would be more of a general US history as I couldn't easily find any others with Civil War concentrations.)

I'm doing it for personal enrichment only and would be interested what you would suggest to someone who has read only about 5 books on the subject and watched Ken Burns repeatedly. For someone like that would a structured approach from schooling be most appropriate or at this level am I able to learn on my own, possibly from piggy-backing off reading lists and syllabi from courses on the topic.

Looking forward to your suggestions.

Thanks

Tim
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Tim,

I used to teach in that program at AMU. I am also entirely self-taught in history--I haven't had a formal history class since 10th grade. My majors in college were political science and economics, and I had a minor in English. Consequently, there was no time for things such as formal history classes. My graduate degrees are a master's degree in international affairs, and a law degree. I practice law for a living. But I also have 18 books in print on the Civil War, with two more at the printer, and my work has won awards. Much of my legal training applies to the historical work that I do, but I have no formal training whatsoever. Because of what I've accomplished, I was permitted to teach master's level classes at AMU even though I don't have the academic training myself.

The question is what you intend to do with the degree. If it's purely for self-satisfaction purposes, then I think it is overkill. I'll be the first to admit that I have a lifetime of self-study invested, so I tend to think that just getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree with no plan to use it for any other purpose is unnecessary. There's no reason why you can't seek guidance from those who are knowledgeable and who can help you to focus your own studies, and that's what I want to encourage you to do.

I'm willing to help. If you can make some suggestions as to what you think you might be interested in, I can help you to identify some books to read. And I want to vigorously encourage you to visit battlefields and walk the ground. The most critical and fundamental lesson I can teach you is that the terrain is THE primary source, and that you can never hope to truly understand these battles without walking the ground and understanding that the terrain drove the action, not vice versa. I hope this helps.

Eric
 
I took two Civil War courses (undergraduate level) when I was in university several years back, both with the same outstanding professor. His assigned reading was top-notch and his lectures were not to be missed. He is an outstanding speaker, extremely well-read, and really groks the Civil War. Unfortunately, not every university can boast such a high quality Civil War professor.

I wouldn't subject myself to the crushing workload of graduate-level classes unless I really needed the masters degree for something (and currently I don't).

I haven't done any of the online courses others have posted about above so I can offer no opinion on them.

Otherwise, to anyone who is interested in the Civil War, I would offer this course of study:
1. Read "The Impending Crisis" by David Potter and "The Battle Cry of Freedom" by McPherson.
2. Read "What Hath God Wrought" by Daniel Howe which covers the 1815-1848 period. I think it gives important context for what comes later and is a darn good book.
4. If you're interested in the military side, read Shelby Foote's trilogy. It's long but provides a good overview of all the campaigns and battles.
5. Look for books on specific campaigns and battles that interest you, starting with single-volume studies.
6. If you're especially interested in a particular campaign or battle then look for the multi-volume studies, essay compilations, and smaller-scale studies.
7. Whenever you're intrigued by a particular historical figure, find a good biography on them.
8. Check C-SPAN and other free online videos for history lectures on topics that interest you.
9. Remember that you're learning for personal interest. If a book isn't enjoyable then put it down and go on to something else.

Whenever possible I recommend making use of your local public library. If they don't have a particular Civil War book they might be able to get it via Inter-Library Loan (ILL) from a nearby university library or larger public library system.

I recommend setting aside some time daily to read if you can.
 
After reading Battle Cry of Freedom, I started looking for, and buying the books in his list of references. Found Nevins 4 vol. "War for the Union". It covered not only the military side, and pretty accurate for someone writing in the 1950s into the early 70s, but also the home front. How the country was changing, and growing, even without the war efforts. then I found
the "Emergence of Lincoln" in 2 Volumes, and "Ordeal of the Union" in 2 Volumes, also by Nevins.
I would highly recommend adding this set to the reading list.
 
Old_Glory said:
The biggest problem with courses is potential bias of the instructor and the material they use. If you want to teach history, then you have no choice but to take the courses. If you just want to do it for fun, buy books that interest you from both perspectives of the War. You will learn a heck of a lot more that way.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I have been on this forum for 2 weeks, about. The knowledge base here is tremendous. If you search the more challenging forums on sessesion, states rights, Constitutionality of you will find some well read folks. I may not agree with them on all points or any in some cases but they are well read. I would suggest finding these men and women and ask them on the side for books on the Northern perspective and books on thw Southern perspective. There are thousands of books but only so much time per day. I would think this would narrow the field. Any college especially the 2 mentioned would be biased these days. The other forums are good for general issues, battles, soldier histories etc and is a great place to go after a lively debate on more controversial issues.

I go to the used book stores and when i have a title or author i search Abebooks.com. the books are new and used. Listed by price and the condition is spelled out. You can, if money allows buy first edition books going way back. Although it might be biased i prefer books written closer to the period. I realize new information comes on the market all the time that can dispute the older writings but I still prefer the original source. I wish you the best and welcome
 
Eric Wittenberg said:
Tim,

I used to teach in that program at AMU. I am also entirely self-taught in history--I haven't had a formal history class since 10th grade. My majors in college were political science and economics, and I had a minor in English. Consequently, there was no time for things such as formal history classes. My graduate degrees are a master's degree in international affairs, and a law degree. I practice law for a living. But I also have 18 books in print on the Civil War, with two more at the printer, and my work has won awards. Much of my legal training applies to the historical work that I do, but I have no formal training whatsoever. Because of what I've accomplished, I was permitted to teach master's level classes at AMU even though I don't have the academic training myself.

The question is what you intend to do with the degree. If it's purely for self-satisfaction purposes, then I think it is overkill. I'll be the first to admit that I have a lifetime of self-study invested, so I tend to think that just getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree with no plan to use it for any other purpose is unnecessary. There's no reason why you can't seek guidance from those who are knowledgeable and who can help you to focus your own studies, and that's what I want to encourage you to do.

I'm willing to help. If you can make some suggestions as to what you think you might be interested in, I can help you to identify some books to read. And I want to vigorously encourage you to visit battlefields and walk the ground. The most critical and fundamental lesson I can teach you is that the terrain is THE primary source, and that you can never hope to truly understand these battles without walking the ground and understanding that the terrain drove the action, not vice versa. I hope this helps.

Eric
Click to expand...
Eric, impressive post. I have printed this thread since it linked to a thread on Standard Civil War Refernce Works. Sorry i dont know how to add the link here. I was wondering if you could review the books listed and based on your experience pick the top 10 as it pertains to the War. I am more interested in causes of the War and how to better understand the right and wrong of it. Secondly what the average soldier went through and thought of the Cause on both sides. I have a few letters and scrapbooks from my GGGrandfather Frank H. Foote but not a lot of the little details and no opinion as to why he fought in it other than pride in his State. He spent a lot of time writting about parts of the War and collecting information on the locals who were there. He died while employeed by Vicksburg National Park after 18 years of service to them. Any help would be appreciated.
 
48th Miss. said:
Eric, impressive post. I have printed this thread since it linked to a thread on Standard Civil War Refernce Works. Sorry i dont know how to add the link here. I was wondering if you could review the books listed and based on your experience pick the top 10 as it pertains to the War. I am more interested in causes of the War and how to better understand the right and wrong of it. Secondly what the average soldier went through and thought of the Cause on both sides. I have a few letters and scrapbooks from my GGGrandfather Frank H. Foote but not a lot of the little details and no opinion as to why he fought in it other than pride in his State. He spent a lot of time writting about parts of the War and collecting information on the locals who were there. He died while employeed by Vicksburg National Park after 18 years of service to them. Any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

For what led to the Civil War:

David M. Potter, The Impending Crisis
William Freehling, The Road to Disunion, Volume 1: Secessionists at Bay
William Freehling, The Road to Disunion, Volume 2: Secessionists Triumphant
Elizabeth Varon, Disunion!
Kenneth M. Stampp, And the War Came: The North in the Secession Crisis
Richard N. Current, Lincoln and the First Shot
David M. Potter, Lincoln and His Party in the Secession Crisis
Charles B. Dew, Apostles of Disunion: Southern Secession Commissioners and the Causes of the Civil War

What the average soldier went through:

Bell I. Wiley, The Life of Billy Yank
Bell I. Wiley, The Life of Johnny Reb
James I. Robertson, Jr., Soldiers Blue and Gray
also, various soldier memoirs, but especially
George T. Stevens, Three Years in the Sixth Corps
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/12/16/three-years-in-the-sixth-corps/
Frederick L. Hitchcock, War From the Inside
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/war-from-the-inside/
John H. Worsham, One of Jackson's Foot Cavalry
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/12/03/one-of-jacksons-foot-cavalry/
William Watson, Life in the Confederate Army
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/11/28/life-in-the-confederate-army/
Warren Lee Goss, Recollections of a Private
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/recollections-of-a-private/
John D. Billings, Hard Tack and Coffee
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/08/11/hard-tack-and-coffee/
Lucius Barber, Army Memoirs
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/army-memoirs/
Carlton McCarthy, Detailed Minutiae of Soldier Life in the Army of Northern Virginia
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com...oldier-life-in-the-army-of-northern-virginia/
John Beatty, The Citizen-Soldier
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-citizen-soldier/
James H. Kidd, Personal Recollections of a Cavalryman
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/03/22/personal-recollections-of-a-cavalryman/
Henry Hitchcock, Marching With Sherman
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/marching-with-sherman/
Horace Porter, Campaigning With Grant
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/campaigning-with-grant/
Theodore Lyman, Meade's Headquarters
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/meades-headquarters-1863-to-1865/
David Lowe, ed., Meade's Army
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/meades-army/

What average soldiers thought about the causes of the war:

James M. McPherson, For Cause & Comrades: Why Soldiers Fought in the Civil War
Chandra Manning, What This Cruel War Was Over
Aaron Sheehan-Dean, Why Confederates Fought
Gary Gallagher, The Confederate War
Gary Gallagher, The Union War

Also, soldier memoirs.
 
cash said:
For what led to the Civil War:

David M. Potter, The Impending Crisis
William Freehling, The Road to Disunion, Volume 1: Secessionists at Bay
William Freehling, The Road to Disunion, Volume 2: Secessionists Triumphant
Elizabeth Varon, Disunion!
Kenneth M. Stampp, And the War Came: The North in the Secession Crisis
Richard N. Current, Lincoln and the First Shot
David M. Potter, Lincoln and His Party in the Secession Crisis
Charles B. Dew, Apostles of Disunion: Southern Secession Commissioners and the Causes of the Civil War

What the average soldier went through:

Bell I. Wiley, The Life of Billy Yank
Bell I. Wiley, The Life of Johnny Reb
James I. Robertson, Jr., Soldiers Blue and Gray
also, various soldier memoirs, but especially
George T. Stevens, Three Years in the Sixth Corps
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/12/16/three-years-in-the-sixth-corps/
Frederick L. Hitchcock, War From the Inside
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/war-from-the-inside/
John H. Worsham, One of Jackson's Foot Cavalry
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/12/03/one-of-jacksons-foot-cavalry/
William Watson, Life in the Confederate Army
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/11/28/life-in-the-confederate-army/
Warren Lee Goss, Recollections of a Private
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/recollections-of-a-private/
John D. Billings, Hard Tack and Coffee
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/08/11/hard-tack-and-coffee/
Lucius Barber, Army Memoirs
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/army-memoirs/
Carlton McCarthy, Detailed Minutiae of Soldier Life in the Army of Northern Virginia
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com...oldier-life-in-the-army-of-northern-virginia/
John Beatty, The Citizen-Soldier
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-citizen-soldier/
James H. Kidd, Personal Recollections of a Cavalryman
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/03/22/personal-recollections-of-a-cavalryman/
Henry Hitchcock, Marching With Sherman
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/marching-with-sherman/
Horace Porter, Campaigning With Grant
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/campaigning-with-grant/
Theodore Lyman, Meade's Headquarters
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/meades-headquarters-1863-to-1865/
David Lowe, ed., Meade's Army
https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/meades-army/

What average soldiers thought about the causes of the war:

James M. McPherson, For Cause & Comrades: Why Soldiers Fought in the Civil War
Chandra Manning, What This Cruel War Was Over
Aaron Sheehan-Dean, Why Confederates Fought
Gary Gallagher, The Confederate War
Gary Gallagher, The Union War

Also, soldier memoirs.
Click to expand...
Awesome, Cash. Thank you. Looks like I will be busy for years but well worth the time.
 
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