NF Footnotes - or endnotes?

[Eric Wittenberg]

I concur with the majority of posters whereby footnotes should be at the bottom of the page. My computer automatically does it for me. I think a proper bibliography broken up into sections for primary and secondary sources is also important. The primary source bibliography should be very precise in identifying the materials cited in the text. Some authors just simply name the collection instead of specifically indicating the file from which the citation originated from. David.

Every single one of my bibliographies is broken out this way.

 

[luinrina]

For convenience, I usually don't refer to endnotes until I complete a full chapter.

So you finish a chapter and then read the notes? Sounds like a great way of how to reduce flipping back and forth and still read the notes in conjuncture with the actual text. I'll have to try that for myself. Thanks for the idea!

 

[luinrina]

I MUCH prefer footnotes, and have been quite insistent that all of my recent books be published with footnotes rather than with endnotes. A review of my published books since about 2010 will indicate that they pretty much all have footnotes and not endnotes.

So the author has some say in whether footnotes or endnotes are used? Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Jamieva]

I MUCH prefer footnotes, and have been quite insistent that all of my recent books be published with footnotes rather than with endnotes. A review of my published books since about 2010 will indicate that they pretty much all have footnotes and not endnotes.

Eric that is only applicable in the actual print editions right? I think where we get less flexibility is in the e book world where they tend to be at the end of the book or the end of the chapter, but not at the bottom of the page. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me but that is how i have seen most e books so far.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eric that is only applicable in the actual print editions right? I think where we get less flexibility is in the e book world where they tend to be at the end of the book or the end of the chapter, but not at the bottom of the page. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me but that is how i have seen most e books so far.

Honestly, Jamie, I have no clue. I have to admit that I have never looked at any of the e-book versions of my books.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

So the author has some say in whether footnotes or endnotes are used? Good to know. Thanks!

Not necessarily. Most publishers won't change how they do things. However, Ted Savas does tend to listen to me when I make suggestions, and my suggestions played some role in getting Ted to decide to switch to footnotes instead of endnotes as a matter of company policy.

 

[photoman475]

I prefer endnotes. Having to write two master's theses requiring footnotes was and will forever be a pain. if I had my way, the Modern Language Association's in-text documentation is what I would do. But endnotes allow for more detail than in-text will do.

 

[jackt62]

So you finish a chapter and then read the notes? Sounds like a great way of how to reduce flipping back and forth and still read the notes in conjuncture with the actual text. I'll have to try that for myself. Thanks for the idea!

It can sometimes be difficult to relate the endnote to the actual part of the narrative, but I got tired of flipping back and forth as you can see!

 

[huskerblitz]

I prefer endnotes. Having to write two master's theses requiring footnotes was and will forever be a pain. if I had my way, the Modern Language Association's in-text documentation is what I would do. But endnotes allow for more detail than in-text will do.

Honestly, that is worse, IMO, than footnotes. I've read a couple of books written in this manner (generally Chicago style) and absolutely hated it.

 

[Deleted User CS]

Every single one of my bibliographies is broken out this way.

Eric. What I find interesting is that so-called professional historians, like Carmichael, do not beak down their bibliographies like you do in your books. For example, in his newest book entitled: "The War for the Common Soldier", if one looks at the bibliography under the heading of the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center one finds two collections: he correctly identifies a specific letter from the Coco collection and then simply mentions the Harrisburg Civil War Roundtable Collection. This particular collection has well over fifty individual boxes within the confines of this collection. There are numerous individual files within each box. He certainly did not use each and every file within this collection. This is the type of inconsistencies that I object strongly to with certain historians and their bibliographies. David.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Eric. What I find interesting is that so-called professional historians, like Carmichael, do not beak down their bibliographies like you do in your books. For example, in his newest book entitled: "The War for the Common Soldier", if one looks at the bibliography under the heading of the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center one finds two collections: he correctly identifies a specific letter from the Coco collection and then simply mentions the Harrisburg Civil War Roundtable Collection. This particular collection has well over fifty individual boxes within the confines of this collection. There are numerous individual files within each box. He certainly did not use each and every file within this collection. This is the type of inconsistencies that I object strongly to with certain historians and their bibliographies. David.

I understand, David.

There's also a trend toward not including a bibliography at all. For me, that automatically disqualifies a book from consideration for purchase.

 

[Deleted User CS]

I understand, David.

There's also a trend toward not including a bibliography at all. For me, that automatically disqualifies a book from consideration for purchase.

Eric. I concur wholeheartedly. Before I purchase any book, I always check the bibliography and acknowledgement. David.

 

[John Winn]

I concur with the majority of posters whereby footnotes should be at the bottom of the page. My computer automatically does it for me. I think a proper bibliography broken up into sections for primary and secondary sources is also important. The primary source bibliography should be very precise in identifying the materials cited in the text. Some authors just simply name the collection instead of specifically indicating the file from which the citation originated from. David.

I concur. Like @Eric Wittenberg I'd not buy a history book that didn't have a bibliography. I always use the bibliography and that's largely how I've built my modest CW-era library (e.g. if three respected authors all note a publication on a subject I want to read about I lean strongly toward buying a copy of said publication).

Somebody mentioned the format where notes are at the end of each chapter. I recently bought a book that used that format but I don't find it much better than when the notes are at the end of the book; still have to flip back and forth. I'm happy with the bibliography being at the end of the book as that's not something I tend to need to reference frequently as is true with notes.

 

[Deleted User CS]

I concur. Like @Eric Wittenberg I'd not buy a history book that didn't have a bibliography. I always use the bibliography and that's largely how I've built my modest CW-era library (e.g. if three respected authors all note a publication on a subject I want to read about I lean strongly toward buying a copy of said publication).

Somebody mentioned the format where notes are at the end of each chapter. I recently bought a book that used that format but I don't find it much better than when the notes are at the end of the book; still have to flip back and forth. I'm happy with the bibliography being at the end of the book as that's not something I tend to need to reference frequently as is true with notes.

John. I totally agree with your assessment. Keep the Faith. David.

 

[FarawayFriend]

I prefer endnotes, because I hate footnotes that interrupt the text flow. Sometimes it's only half a page of genuine text, the rest is footnotes. Or the footnotes even extend over several pages, and I have to flip back to find the text passage where I was coming from - that is most annoying.

So you finish a chapter and then read the notes? Sounds like a great way of how to reduce flipping back and forth and still read the notes in conjuncture with the actual text. I'll have to try that for myself. Thanks for the idea!

I'm doing that all the time. I have a very good annotated edition of my favorite 19th century author Theodor Fontane. He was writing novels that require a pretty good knowledge of the places he describes and the events that took place in his time setting. Places and background events are very meaningful for understanding his intentions, those who don't know them miss important details. Not to disturb the storyline too much, there are not even small numbers or markers or anything, but a huge section of endnotes and comments referring to almost each page of the novel. So first I do enjoy the novel, then I do enjoy the endnotes and comments and sometimes flip back to the original text to put them in context. They explain the text to me and help me appreciate the metaphors or interpret small details in the text I would have not noticed without being guided by annotations.

And I know I will be killed for this and publicly reveal my utter ignorance, but as a reader I personally could do completely without footnotes or endnotes in non-fiction books. I would so much prefer if an authour could just tell what he wants to tell within his text, not making deviations. I want to read non-fiction like I read fiction, becoming immersed in what is described and not constantly stumbling over small numbers or asterisks or whatever and their notes, which distract me from the original text. If I see a number, I feel compelled to follow it, it's hard for me to just ignore it, and sometimes I just hate to be yanked from the description of an event or a character, only to read about some detail that would have been part of the text, had it been of immediate importance.

A good bibliography at the end of the book is mandatory for me, though. Although it always gives me chills to see what I will have to miss because of a simple lack of time! So many books, so little time!! On the other hand, if I discover that I have read a good deal of the quoted sources already … that is really satisfying...

 

[Deleted User CS]

I understand, David.

There's also a trend toward not including a bibliography at all. For me, that automatically disqualifies a book from consideration for purchase.

Eric. I also like how you breakdown the bibliography into sections: one for articles, one for secondary works and one for internet sources. David.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

I write with footnotes for ease of editing and writing but intend to convert to endnotes for publication (ideally end of chapter notes), but I hate reading with footnotes. I find them incredibly distracting.

I guess it matters how often you actually check the citations and whether you have ADD or some similar condition. For an annotated work footnotes make more sense.

When ebooks became a thing I figured citations would involve popup text. I'm not sure if anyone actually does that - probably too much programming involved to make it work? It might actually get me to read ebooks though.

What I really dislike are foot/endnotes that have several citations for one paragraph. Now I have to figure out which one is the source.

Ditto. Unfortunately, this method is not only common, but seems encouraged by universities.

if I had my way, the Modern Language Association's in-text documentation is what I would do.

Ugh. I hate in-text citations. They are even more distracting than footnotes. Also, depending on the sources used they can be a nightmare, such as if you're citing a dozen articles, none with an author credit, from the same year of one newspaper.

 

[gary]

My newest book has in-text citations. The "select bibliography" will be over two pages long. To me it's amazing considering it is an Osprey title of 80 pages.

Sometimes these things are done to meet the publisher's style for its series of book. Sometimes it's the book designer who decides on it. Mine is the former.

 

[luinrina]

When ebooks became a thing I figured citations would involve popup text. I'm not sure if anyone actually does that - probably too much programming involved to make it work? It might actually get me to read ebooks though.

How much popup do you mean/want? Here's how it looks in my ebooks:

I just tip on the footnote and the window opens above the text - sometimes as small as in the example above, sometimes filling the entire page or more if it's a long footnote). With the X I close the footnote it again. I could also go to the footnotes at the end of the book (= Zu Fußnoten wechseln), functions like with a link in the internet. There then, in the front of the note #, is a link back to the text. Very easy to use.

If I flip forward to the end of the ebook, all the footnotes are assembled like endnotes in printed books.

In case someone is interested: That example is from Fighting for the Confederacy by Porter Alexander.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

How much popup do you mean/want? Here's how it looks in my ebooks

Yes, that's essentially what I have in mind. Is this standard for citations in most ebooks now?