Grant Does biographer Chernow over-emphasize Grant's drinking?

[tony_gunter]

In his 2017 biography, Grant, does author Ron Chernow place Ulysses S. Grant's use of alcohol too much at the center of his story? This claim was made recently in another CWT thread about Grant, and I thought it might be worth starting a new thread on just this question. Personally, this issue didn't occur to me during or after my reading of Grant. Chernow does include accounts of Grant's drinking and accusations that were made against him; but while I was reading the book, I just took it as a topic that should naturally come up in the life story of someone whose use of alcohol was of interest during his lifetime and has been ever since.

But what do others think about Chernow's treatment of Grant and the bottle? Not really a significant theme in the book? A crazy obsession? Or something in between?

ARB

From that thread:

"Chernow really doesn't address the alcohol issue, pro or con. He occasionally notes rumors and conjectures by those around Grant, but it's not even until page 649 that he offhandedly mentions without explanation 'frequent wartime binges.'"

 

[tony_gunter]

Chernow is just one of many Grant biographers and historians who have written about him, and most at least touch on the question of alcohol. But I found a review by a historian Nick Sacco who is critical of Chernow's book because it places Grant's use of alcohol at the center of the story. I didn't come away with that impression myself after reading the biography, but here's Sacco's complaint (7 Nov. 2018):

"Ron Chernow's latest biography on Ulysses S. Grant is a largely positive interpretation of the man, but he unfortunately throws caution to the wind and makes Grant's 'alcoholism' a central aspect of his story. In Chernow's interpretation, Grant fought alcoholism throughout his life. Most notably, Chernow claims that Grant's alcoholism was a 'disease,' the first time such a claim has been made by any Grant scholar. These drinking problems are actually a redeeming aspect of Grant in Chernow's telling, however, because they demonstrate how Grant fought through his personal demons while achieving greatness and becoming the single most important figure in 19th century American history."

ARB

Where in Chernow does he ever claim Grant was an alcoholic. I don't remember that at all, and I wonder if people are conflating Chernow (2017) with Donald Miller's Vicksburg (2019), which can absolutely be subtitled "triumph over alcoholism" if I'm recalling his wild assertions correctly.

 

[tony_gunter]

There are several problems with trying to diagnose Grant as an alcoholic:

1) The most credible of these claims assert that Grant occasionally engaged in binge drinking, but the most recent DSM doesn't include binge drinking as a form of alcoholism.
2) The DSM criteria clearly considers alcoholism a drug dependency, and Grant doesn't show signs of dependency. He often went long periods in total abstinence, often in the presence of others who were known drinkers.
3) Grant did suffer from frequent migraines, the symptoms of which sometimes mimic intoxication:

• Dizziness that lasts more than a few minutes.
• Nausea and vomiting.
• Balance problems.
• Extreme motion sensitivity – feeling sick or dizzy when you move your head, eyes, or body.
• A feeling of disorientation or confusion.
• An unsteady feeling, like you're in a rocking boat

4) Grant's affliction from migraines require us to rule in alcoholism by first hand accounts of Grant displaying signs of abuse or dependency, which is further complicated by the fact that one of the treatments used by Grant's doctor was … alcohol.

5) Another factor complicating any first-hand accounts of Grant drinking is the zealotry of the temperance movement. Grant was a known drinker, in the eyes of the temperance zealots drinking = drunk.

6) The elephant in the room is that most accounts of Grant drinking come from people who had something to gain by the accusation. McClernand, Banks, Halleck. Sometimes these people were not even in proximity to Grant.

It's frankly a ridiculous claim.

 

[A. Roy]

Chernow's 'coverage' of the New Orleans accident is more extensive I think than anything else that I've read -- I'm assuming that this is because of his particular interest in the question of Grant and alcohol. The portion that I quoted earlier today is followed by some caveats about the accusations made by Banks and Franklin -- but then there's Rawlins's conclusion:

"As with many Grant drinking stories, the most lurid versions emanated from generals hostile to Grant. Franklin was a protégé of McClellan and had bungled two battles in the eastern theater before Lincoln banished him to Louisiana for scheming to get McClellan reinstated. Friendlier generals, such as Cadwallader Washburn (sic), made no allusion to drinking, even when writing to his brother Elihu about the fall. And if Grant was drunk, how did he have enough self-command to remain in the saddle? What lends most credence to the tale that Grant had been drunk was that John Rawlins heard it from people present and believed it. A couple of months later, suspecting a new drinking spree, he sent his fiancée an exasperated letter: 'I had hoped but it appears vainly his New Orleans experience would prevent him ever again indulging with this his worst enemy.'" (Page 303.)

AR

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

There are several problems with trying to diagnose Grant as an alcoholic:

1) The most credible of these claims assert that Grant occasionally engaged in binge drinking, but the most recent DSM doesn't include binge drinking as a form of alcoholism.
2) The DSM criteria clearly considers alcoholism a drug dependency, and Grant doesn't show signs of dependency. He often went long periods in total abstinence, often in the presence of others who were known drinkers.
3) Grant did suffer from frequent migraines, the symptoms of which sometimes mimic intoxication:

• Dizziness that lasts more than a few minutes.
• Nausea and vomiting.
• Balance problems.
• Extreme motion sensitivity – feeling sick or dizzy when you move your head, eyes, or body.
• A feeling of disorientation or confusion.
• An unsteady feeling, like you're in a rocking boat

4) Grant's affliction from migraines require us to rule in alcoholism by first hand accounts of Grant displaying signs of abuse or dependency, which is further complicated by the fact that one of the treatments used by Grant's doctor was … alcohol.

5) Another factor complicating any first-hand accounts of Grant drinking is the zealotry of the temperance movement. Grant was a known drinker, in the eyes of the temperance zealots drinking = drunk.

6) The elephant in the room is that most accounts of Grant drinking come from people who had something to gain by the accusation. McClernand, Banks, Halleck. Sometimes these people were not even in proximity to Grant.

It's frankly a ridiculous claim.

Isn't there some evidence that Grant also suffered from malaria? I don't think that issue, if true, would have helped matters. People-his detractors at least-would have been inclined to misinterpret the symptoms of malaria as "evidence"' of excessive drinking.

 

[Grant's Tomb]

Meriwether Lewis drank a lot of whiskey when he was serving in the army in the 1790s before he led the Corps of Discovery. The expedition ran out of whiskey by the time they completed the portage around the Great Falls in July 1805. Two of the enlisted men, John Collins and Hugh Hall, broke into the supply, got drunk and were court-martialed in July 1804 near present-day Kansas City. The daily ration for each man in the expedition was four ounces. Lewis also did drink a lot more when returned from the expedition. He was quite drunk at times when he was in Philadelphia before he went to St. Louis to serve as territorial governor.

 

[Cavalier]

Didn't read Chernow's book so can't comment on it. Not a big fan of Grant as a general or a president either. However I don't believe he deserves the popular reputation he seems to have acquired as a drunk. He may have had a few too many on occasion and/or he may not have been able to handle it as well as some others but I don't believe he could have accomplished what he did if he had been as big a drunk as his detractors claim.

John

 

[tony_gunter]

Isn't there some evidence that Grant also suffered from malaria? I don't think that issue, if true, would have helped matters. People-his detractors at least-would have been inclined to misinterpret the symptoms of malaria as "evidence"' of excessive drinking.

I don't think one would normally mistake the symptoms of malaria with being drunk, but I have seen that as a suggestion for the Yazoo bender.

The problem with the Yazoo party cruise story is that we have conflicting first-hand accounts from Sylvanus Cadwallader and James Wilson. I don't know if either really matches up with malaria symptoms (fever, chills, nausea, muscle aches lasting 3-4 days) but both of which would match up with vestibular migraine, one treatment of which was of course alcohol.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

The problem with the Yazoo party cruise story is that we have conflicting first-hand accounts from Sylvanus Cadwallader and James Wilson.

Furthermore, Cadwallader isn't a reliable source, and I'm not sure Wilson is either.

 

[uaskme]

Chernow's 'coverage' of the New Orleans accident is more extensive I think than anything else that I've read -- I'm assuming that this is because of his particular interest in the question of Grant and alcohol. The portion that I quoted earlier today is followed by some caveats about the accusations made by Banks and Franklin -- but then there's Rawlins's conclusion:

"As with many Grant drinking stories, the most lurid versions emanated from generals hostile to Grant. Franklin was a protégé of McClellan and had bungled two battles in the eastern theater before Lincoln banished him to Louisiana for scheming to get McClellan reinstated. Friendlier generals, such as Cadwallader Washburn (sic), made no allusion to drinking, even when writing to his brother Elihu about the fall. And if Grant was drunk, how did he have enough self-command to remain in the saddle? What lends most credence to the tale that Grant had been drunk was that John Rawlins heard it from people present and believed it. A couple of months later, suspecting a new drinking spree, he sent his fiancée an exasperated letter: 'I had hoped but it appears vainly his New Orleans experience would prevent him ever again indulging with this his worst enemy.'" (Page 303.)

AR

Banks wrote a letter home and called Grant a Drunk. Grant apologist will Blame Banks for putting him on a hard mouth Horse. Guess it was Banks fault. There is a thread here on it. Don't think Banks was a enemy of the C Gar Sucker.

Hilarious we are suppose to believe everybody was picking on poor Grant.

 

[Belfoured]

Meriwether Lewis drank a lot of whiskey when he was serving in the army in the 1790s before he led the Corps of Discovery. The expedition ran out of whiskey by the time they completed the portage around the Great Falls in July 1805. Two of the enlisted men, John Collins and Hugh Hall, broke into the supply, got drunk and were court-martialed in July 1804 near present-day Kansas City. The daily ration for each man in the expedition was four ounces. Lewis also did drink a lot more when returned from the expedition. He was quite drunk at times when he was in Philadelphia before he went to St. Louis to serve as territorial governor.

As we know, he may have eventually committed suicide. Whether that was the cause of death or, instead, it was murder likely will never be conclusively established. I lean strongly to suicide given a lot of the larger context.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Guess it was Banks fault.

Or maybe it was just an accident.

 

[uaskme]

Or maybe it was just an accident.

Common sense riding a horse, especially a high spirited one would take hand eye coordination. Some athletic ability. It would be a much harder task while under the influence. Banks had dinner with Grant, observed his drinking. Called him a drunk in a letter to his Wife. Which is a description of someone other than a casual drinker. Banks had no reason to lie to his wife. Unless he was protecting his horse.

Also, because of this. Halleck can't find him for over a week. Grant has an important message lying on his desk. To relieve Rosecrans. So maybe his drinking did effect his job abilities?

 

[DanSBHawk]

Common sense riding a horse, especially a high spirited one would take hand eye coordination. Some athletic ability. It would be a much harder task while under the influence. Banks had dinner with Grant, observed his drinking. Called him a drunk in a letter to his Wife. Which is a description of someone other than a casual drinker. Banks had no reason to lie to his wife. Unless he was protecting his horse.

Also, because of this. Halleck can't find him for over a week. Grant has an important message lying on his desk. To relieve Rosecrans. So maybe his drinking did effect his job abilities?

In Banks' letter to his wife, he also acts defensive about his horse throwing Grant. So perhaps he just felt bad about lending Grant the horse that threw him.

The firsthand accounts of the event do not all agree that Grant was drinking. Some people just want to always believe the worst about Grant.

 

[uaskme]

In Banks' letter to his wife, he also acts defensive about his horse throwing Grant. So perhaps he just felt bad about lending Grant the horse that threw him.

The firsthand accounts of the event do not all agree that Grant was drinking. Some people just want to always believe the worst about Grant.

Was the horse drinking?

I can understand why some would protect their flawed Hero such as Grant. Quite a guy who only drank when he was lonely and blue. Never when it had any consequences. Stuff the Yankee Myth is Full Of. What a Guy. Only a few could do that. Other officers did it, and yes it had consequences.

It is well know he had staff officers who kept an eye on him. Historian here, Jim Ogden says he had 2. We Know 1 and I guess the other was White. Been written that Julia stayed in the picture. Probably all of his reports of drinking weren't true. But some of it is pretty well documented. If you need a good source. I could offer 1 or 2?

Of all of Grants bad personality traits. Drinking probably wasn't the worst one.

Maybe some Historians are just to favorable to him. You know, the ones you like. Grantees can't accept any criticism. About Grant or any other element of Northern responsibility for the Civil War. Think this is the issue.

 

[A. Roy]

The specific topic of this thread is Chernow's biography of Grant and particularly Chernow's treatment of Grant's drinking. From what's been discussed here so far, it seems that Chernow focuses quite a bit on Grant's use of alcohol and is convinced that he was a problem drinker and an alcoholic. On the other hand, some of the accounts of Grant's drinking are dubious and might have been fabricated or exaggerated.
AR

 

[DanSBHawk]

Was the horse drinking?

I can understand why some would protect their flawed Hero such as Grant. Quite a guy who only drank when he was lonely and blue. Never when it had any consequences. Stuff the Yankee Myth is Full Of. What a Guy. Only a few could do that. Other officers did it, and yes it had consequences.

It is well know he had staff officers who kept an eye on him. Historian here, Jim Ogden says he had 2. We Know 1 and I guess the other was White. Been written that Julia stayed in the picture. Probably all of his reports of drinking weren't true. But some of it is pretty well documented. If you need a good source. I could offer 1 or 2?

Of all of Grants bad personality traits. Drinking probably wasn't the worst one.

Maybe some Historians are just to favorable to him. You know, the ones you like. Grantees can't accept any criticism. About Grant or any other element of Northern responsibility for the Civil War. Think this is the issue.

"Blah blah Yankee Myth blah blah blah."

How about we just stick to the evidence. The New Orleans incident has contradictory accounts. Any modern person who claims to know exactly what happened is just blowing smoke.

 

[Belfoured]

Furthermore, Cadwallader isn't a reliable source, and I'm not sure Wilson is either.

That's the problem with a lot of these incidents. We have to rely on accounts by people on either side of the issue who had reasons not to be completely objective. For the New Orleans incident Banks and Franklin both had possible motivation to "embellish" what happened because Banks took part in the festivities himself and supplied the horse, while Franklin made his comment after he had been by thoroughly embarrassed at Sabine Pass. Cadwallader Washburne, on the other hand, was the brother of one of Grant's most important sponsors. Anybody's who's being completely objective won't come down definitively on either version.

 

[Belfoured]

"Blah blah Yankee Myth blah blah blah."

How about we just stick to the evidence. The New Orleans incident has contradictory accounts. Any modern person who claims to know exactly what happened is just blowing smoke.

It's an interesting planet where a post accusing posters of being Grant "apologists" buttresses the accusation with the usual rant about "Yankee Myths". To quote Captain Miller, "that's disconcerting".

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Of all of Grants bad personality traits. Drinking probably wasn't the worst one.

Nope. His worst trait was his blind loyalty, to a degree Jefferson Davis would have admired.