Grant Does biographer Chernow over-emphasize Grant's drinking?

[A. Roy]

In his 2017 biography, Grant, does author Ron Chernow place Ulysses S. Grant's use of alcohol too much at the center of his story? This claim was made recently in another CWT thread about Grant, and I thought it might be worth starting a new thread on just this question. Personally, this issue didn't occur to me during or after my reading of Grant. Chernow does include accounts of Grant's drinking and accusations that were made against him; but while I was reading the book, I just took it as a topic that should naturally come up in the life story of someone whose use of alcohol was of interest during his lifetime and has been ever since.

But what do others think about Chernow's treatment of Grant and the bottle? Not really a significant theme in the book? A crazy obsession? Or something in between?

ARB

 

[JackADriscoll]

Grant - Ulysses S. Grant: The Myth of His Drinking | Famous People of the Late Unpleasantness

Famous people frequently go down in history fixed in people's minds as one dimensional caricatures consisting of a handful of traits or qualities. Frozen in time and the public's imagination, these stereotypes are nearly impossible to dislodge from our nation's collective consciousness. Robert...

civilwartalk.com

Here is a great past thread on his drinking

 

[A. Roy]

One review of Chernow's book led me to an interesting passage on page 67, about the winter of 1849-50, when Grant and Julia were in Detroit. Relying on a later account by Col. James E. Pitman, Chernow mentions the influence of a Methodist minister, George Taylor, on Grant:

"'I think that Dr. Taylor helped Grant a great deal,'" said Colonel Pitman. "'It was said that he had a long talk with Grant at that time and told him that he could not safely use liquor in any form and Grant acknowledged this and took the pledge and thereafter used no liquor at all in Detroit.'" This episode makes clear that Grant, from an early age, acknowledged that he had a chronic drinking problem, was never cavalier about it, and was determined to resolve it. This overly controlled young man now wrestled with a disease that caused a total loss of control, which must have made it more tormenting and pestered his Methodist conscience."

Just to clarify, that latter sentence comes from Chernow himself, not from Pitman's account. It does seem like an extraordinary claim to diagnose Grant retrospectively like this with the disease of alcoholism.

AR

 

[JackADriscoll]

One review of Chernow's book led me to an interesting passage on page 67, about the winter of 1849-50, when Grant and Julia were in Detroit. Relying on a later account by Col. James E. Pitman, Chernow mentions the influence of a Methodist minister, George Taylor, on Grant:

"'I think that Dr. Taylor helped Grant a great deal,'" said Colonel Pitman. "'It was said that he had a long talk with Grant at that time and told him that he could not safely use liquor in any form and Grant acknowledged this and took the pledge and thereafter used no liquor at all in Detroit.'" This episode makes clear that Grant, from an early age, acknowledged that he had a chronic drinking problem, was never cavalier about it, and was determined to resolve it. This overly controlled young man now wrestled with a disease that caused a total loss of control, which must have made it more tormenting and pestered his Methodist conscience."

Just to clarify, that latter sentence comes from Chernow himself, not from Pitman's account. It does seem like an extraordinary claim to diagnose Grant retrospectively like this with the disease of alcoholism.

AR

During Grants between the war down periods was he ever arrested for public intox or vagrancy or anything like that?

 

[jackt62]

I wouldn't say that Chernow over-emphasized Grant's drinking. My conclusion after reading numerous sources and accounts about Grant's alleged drinking problem is that there were 2 or perhaps 3 war time incidents in which Grant fell off the wagon; these occurrences were quickly hushed up and contained by Rawlins or Julia Grant and most likely had no effect on Grant's command abilities. The writers and historians who adamantly deny any drinking problem by Grant are dead wrong, as are those who insist that Grant was a consummate consumer of alcohol that had profound and negative influence on Grant's actions.

 

[TallTallMan]

I don't think Grant drank as much as they say. He DID, but just not to the extent that some writers imply. He probably did on the Yazoo but Cadwallader gave it a newspaperman's embellishment.

In Joe Rose's defense, though, he includes his newspaper drinking stories for posterity. Chernow just accepted whatever sounds good. Also the basis of his research is Grant bios, Shelby Foote, Bruce Catton, and 150th Anniversary books.

 

[lupaglupa]

It's interesting that you bring this up - the book I'm reading now, "Silent Cavalry" by Howell Raines, makes the claim that Chernow underplays Grant's drinking.

 

[PatW]

Catton seemed to think that Grant did not drink to excess during the civil war.

There is the notorious drinking spree during the siege of Vicksburg. I think it was reported by a reporter by the name of Cadwaller (sp?) and pretty long after the war. Both Grant and Rawlins would have been dead.

Another problem is Grant suffered from migraines. He could have been prostrate in his tent and a likely explanation would have been drinking.

Another explanation is for illness quite a few medicines had a good slug of alcohol in them. Grant is generally considered to be "a cheap date" and if he was under the weather and given a common patent medicine, it could look like a drinking bout.

At this remove, I do not know how we could really know. From what I have read, Grant seems to have drank far less than many Civil War generals. But he does seem to have drank some. The consensus is that any drinking Grant did, did not affect his performance.

Actually, a more serious threat to Grant's performance was his love of hotrodding on spirited horses. He was seriously injured a number of times. Of course, many

 

[dlofting]

I don't know where I read it, so it may not be correct, but I was given to understand that Grant suffered from migraines. If you didn't know how someone with a migraine presented, you could easily mistake it for a bad hangover.

 

[A. Roy]

Chernow is just one of many Grant biographers and historians who have written about him, and most at least touch on the question of alcohol. But I found a review by a historian Nick Sacco who is critical of Chernow's book because it places Grant's use of alcohol at the center of the story. I didn't come away with that impression myself after reading the biography, but here's Sacco's complaint (7 Nov. 2018):

"Ron Chernow's latest biography on Ulysses S. Grant is a largely positive interpretation of the man, but he unfortunately throws caution to the wind and makes Grant's 'alcoholism' a central aspect of his story. In Chernow's interpretation, Grant fought alcoholism throughout his life. Most notably, Chernow claims that Grant's alcoholism was a 'disease,' the first time such a claim has been made by any Grant scholar. These drinking problems are actually a redeeming aspect of Grant in Chernow's telling, however, because they demonstrate how Grant fought through his personal demons while achieving greatness and becoming the single most important figure in 19th century American history."

ARB

 

[JackADriscoll]

Here is another old thread speaking a bit to grants drinking and where some complaints came from

Capt. William Kountz | Other Soldiers, Politicians, & Men

This is a photo of the appointment letter of William J. Kountz as Assistant Quartermaster of Volunteers with the rank of Captain. It was given to me as a repayment for a personal loan. (Lucky me!) The Military Appointment was signed by Edwin M. Stanton, Secretary of War. The appointment is...

www.google.com

 

[10th Michigan Infantry]

Grant undoubtedly struggled with alcohol, but I don't believe it impacted his ability to command troops. I believe the drinking was largely caused by him being away from his wife and family. The only time during the Civil War that I recall him drinking too much would be during the Vicksburg Campaign, and his staff very much attempted to keep Grant away from alcohol.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

I think there's a significant distinction to be made between an alcoholic and someone who can't hold their liquor.

There are heavy alcoholics who can consume a surprising amount of booze before appearing inebriated. There are also "lightweights" who are noticeably tipsy after one beer, but don't necessarily have any urges to drink.

Alcoholism is about a need, a compulsion - chemical/physical or psychological - to consume alcohol. Grant using alcohol as a crutch for dealing with loneliness and boredom while at a backwater outpost doesn't make him an alcoholic.

If Grant was an alcoholic he probably did a better job of staying on the wagon than 99% of people who go through AA.

 

[JackADriscoll]

On a remote location alcohol and sleeping are two time machines. When you sleep you go forward in time. When you drink you also do but the hours pass in a different way. Also when you drink and you are lonely the company of just yourself can feel more tolerable. Those returns are diminishing on that point though.

 

[121st PA Vols]

Chernow is just one of many Grant biographers and historians who have written about him, and most at least touch on the question of alcohol. But I found a review by a historian Nick Sacco who is critical of Chernow's book because it places Grant's use of alcohol at the center of the story. I didn't come away with that impression myself after reading the biography, but here's Sacco's complaint (7 Nov. 2018):

"Ron Chernow's latest biography on Ulysses S. Grant is a largely positive interpretation of the man, but he unfortunately throws caution to the wind and makes Grant's 'alcoholism' a central aspect of his story. In Chernow's interpretation, Grant fought alcoholism throughout his life. Most notably, Chernow claims that Grant's alcoholism was a 'disease,' the first time such a claim has been made by any Grant scholar. These drinking problems are actually a redeeming aspect of Grant in Chernow's telling, however, because they demonstrate how Grant fought through his personal demons while achieving greatness and becoming the single most important figure in 19th century American history."

ARB

That's a Sacco of S_ _ _. An absolute falsehood that Chernow made alcoholism a "central aspect of the story". I think this sacco dude was into the sauce himself when he wrote such nonsense. It's so wrong, I can only think he was reviewing another book. Chernow if anything gave the topic little attention. Some would say to a fault. As evidenced by Washington, Hamilton and now Grant, Chernow is one of America's great biographers.

 

[edfranksphd]

In his 2017 biography, Grant, does author Ron Chernow place Ulysses S. Grant's use of alcohol too much at the center of his story? This claim was made recently in another CWT thread about Grant, and I thought it might be worth starting a new thread on just this question. Personally, this issue didn't occur to me during or after my reading of Grant. Chernow does include accounts of Grant's drinking and accusations that were made against him; but while I was reading the book, I just took it as a topic that should naturally come up in the life story of someone whose use of alcohol was of interest during his lifetime and has been ever since.

But what do others think about Chernow's treatment of Grant and the bottle? Not really a significant theme in the book? A crazy obsession? Or something in between?

ARB

No, only Grant is guilty of over-emphasizing his drinking!! Get over it, Grant-huggers, he can still be a great man, and even a great general, and have a drinking problem too. All kinds of extraordinary people have been high-functioning drunks, i.e., "periodics" (people who would have extended period of total sobriety interrupted with bouts of heavy drinking).

 

[JackADriscoll]

No, only Grant is guilty of over-emphasizing his drinking!! Get over it, Grant-huggers, he can still be a great man, and even a great general, and have a drinking problem too. All kinds of extraordinary people have been high-functioning drunks, i.e., "periodics" (people who would have extended period of total sobriety interrupted with bouts of heavy drinking).

The duke of Wellington himself drank a full bottle of red wine a night

 

[dlofting]

No, only Grant is guilty of over-emphasizing his drinking!! Get over it, Grant-huggers, he can still be a great man, and even a great general, and have a drinking problem too. All kinds of extraordinary people have been high-functioning drunks, i.e., "periodics" (people who would have extended period of total sobriety interrupted with bouts of heavy drinking).

Not sure what you mean by your first sentence. Can you explain with examples if that's possible.

 

[A. Roy]

During Grants between the war down periods was he ever arrested for public intox or vagrancy or anything like that?

I'm not aware of any occasions like this. I believe he was stopped for speeding (on horseback) by District of Columbia police. I don't believe alcohol had anything to do with these incidents!
ARB

 

[Nathan Stuart]

But what do others think about Chernow's treatment of Grant and the bottle? Not really a significant theme in the book? A crazy obsession? Or something in between?

Have not read Chernow's work about Grant nor studied Grant in depth.

So am confined to making only general comments here.

Agree with the comments of jack62 above.

Firstly. Grant existed in an era where there was a widespread societal use of alcohol. Any prewar drinking episodes by Grant (that spawned later rumors of frequent intoxication) seemed to reflect a quite common practice by officers in isolated postings for dealing with boredom, loneliness and inactivity. Grant's drinking behaviors need to be considered in context.

Would see no inherent problem in any written account of Grant's patterns of alcohol consumption, if it's reported as a matter of fact in the course of events, regardless of frequency of occurrence.

Whether Grant was an alcoholic or merely a binge or social/occasional drinker, thought it does not really matter, and need not be given undue prevalence. Whatever the truth, it does not seem to have adversely affected his performance in the field, despite what his critics say.

Thought it says something positive about Grant's mindset and mettle that he was able to rise above the persistent rumors (whether true or untrue) and push on, and continue to achieve positive military outcomes throughout the war.

It seems many rumors about Grant's drunken state at various times during the war, were spread by his critics, some with questionable motives. Don't know whether author, Chernow, fits into the category of having a preconceived dislike of Grant or was just plainly being overly zealous or inadvertent in any focus or overemphasis on Grant's drinking cycles, as suggested as a possibility in the OP.

Might be interesting to investigate further the critics of Grant's alleged wartime alcoholism and what their motives may have been.