Lee Deification of Robert E Lee

[C. Kelp]

or if you prefer neo-confederates or lost cause supporters.

 

[diane]

Well, there it is right there, smack dab in the middle of the room with everybody looking out the windows. The Lost Cause was driven by many things - defeat, the women, exhortations from former leaders, vindication, defiance...the list is long. Jubal Early, the father of the Lost Cause and the general who did the most to further the doctrine, gave Lee's eulogy and Jefferson Davis added his blessing. So, it started right at Lee's casket, Early and Davis bestowing their blessings and sowing the seed of deification. Not so much about Lee...but about The Cause. Lee was the perfect person to be the pillar of smoke by day and fire by night, especially since he was dead.

 

[C. Kelp]

she makes a good point on the conundrum lee found himself in.
thanks again for the tip unionblue. i will get the book .

 

[BillO]

I'm wondering if in some future period, if the American empire is still a thing, will amateur historians be debating the deification of MLK or JFK. In the south Lee sits next to Washington.

 

[unionblue]

I'm wondering if in some future period, if the American empire is still a thing, will amateur historians be debating the deification of MLK or JFK. In the south Lee sits next to Washington.

BillO,

I too, have wondered, how those folks 150 years from now will judge our time and our war on terror, Vietnam, Civil Rights, Poverty, race relations, health care, education, hunger, you pick the topic of the hour and insert it here.

Will we be know as "the crazy years?" "The uncaring or complacent generation?" Or simply as the idiots who could not care for the legacy left them by their forefathers?

We will be judged, I just wonder if our future will be smart enough to learn from our mistakes.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

From the forward of the book, Reading The Man:

Worshipped, uncomprehended and aloof,
A figure lost to flesh and blood and bones.
Frozen into a legend out of life,
A blank-verse statue--

How to humanize
That solitary gentleness and strength
Hidden behind the deadly oratory
Of twenty thousand Lee Memorial days,
How to show in spite of all the rhetoric,
All the sick honey of the speechifiers,
Proportion, not as something calm congealed
From lack of fire, but ruling such a fire....

A Greek proportion--and a riddle unread.
And everything we have said is true
And nothing helps us yet to read the man....


--Stephen Vincent Ben'et, John Brown's Body

 

[Rebforever]

that's just a southern thang. he said the world and the ages.

"--Born in 1807 into a prominent Virginia family, Lee grew into the flower of Southern manhood, embodying the best of Southern virtue. He treasured his faith, his country, his honor, and his family, remaining faithful to each through incredible adversity. He maintained his faith in defeat; gave the best years of his life to his country, first as an officer in the US army and then as Commander-in-Chief of Confederate forces; he refused graft as a general and as a the most famous veteran of the War of Secession; and he remained faithful to an invalid and spoiled wife.

A deeply practical vision towards life complemented Lee's remarkable sense of duty. After the War, when he could have taken any number of fabulously well paying jobs, Lee chose instead to serve as president of tiny Washington College in Lexington, Virginia. As president, he preached reconciliation among the sections, applied for his US citizenship, and made Washington College a national education leader

Lee's dazzling military exploits, his deep devotion to duty, and his fabled graciousness made him the symbol of bygone Southern beauty. Remembered fondly by many as "Marse Robert", the gentle warrior rides in the center of the carving at Stone Mountain, eternally noble in defeat."

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/stone/lee.html

 

[cash]

"--Born in 1807 into a prominent Virginia family, Lee grew into the flower of Southern manhood, embodying the best of Southern virtue. He treasured his faith, his country, his honor, and his family, remaining faithful to each through incredible adversity. He maintained his faith in defeat; gave the best years of his life to his country, first as an officer in the US army and then as Commander-in-Chief of Confederate forces; he refused graft as a general and as a the most famous veteran of the War of Secession; and he remained faithful to an invalid and spoiled wife.

A deeply practical vision towards life complemented Lee's remarkable sense of duty. After the War, when he could have taken any number of fabulously well paying jobs, Lee chose instead to serve as president of tiny Washington College in Lexington, Virginia. As president, he preached reconciliation among the sections, applied for his US citizenship, and made Washington College a national education leader

Lee's dazzling military exploits, his deep devotion to duty, and his fabled graciousness made him the symbol of bygone Southern beauty. Remembered fondly by many as "Marse Robert", the gentle warrior rides in the center of the carving at Stone Mountain, eternally noble in defeat."

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/stone/lee.html

Deification.

 

[C. Kelp]

to add to cash's comment....
Deification ..... by ex-confederates and neo-confederates, not the world or all the ages. not even by the majority of americans (my guess).

 

[C. Kelp]

i'm curious. does anyone know of monuments to lee in union states , except for battlefields and border states?

 

[CMWinkler]

to add to cash's comment....
Deification ..... by ex-confederates and neo-confederates, not the world or all the ages. not even by the majority of americans (my guess).

Lee's men did deify him. Anyone with any knowledge must acknowledge that the war would have ended far earlier without him. You suggested earlier he was not a great general, but that view flies in the face of his contemporaries, including his adversaries.

As to so-called "neo-Confederates," if that refers to people who believe Lee not only to be a great general, but a true Southern Christian gentleman, then that appears to me to be a mantle I'll willingly wear.

As to the majority of Americans, my bet is that vast majority not only don't recognize him but can probably not name more than a handful of folks who were very prominent in the war.

Those of you who denigrate Lee, are in my view, doing a disservice to our history.

 

[C. Kelp]

Lee's men did deify him. Anyone with any knowledge must acknowledge that the war would have ended far earlier without him. You suggested earlier he was not a great general, but that view flies in the face of his contemporaries, including his adversaries.

As to so-called "neo-Confederates," if that refers to people who believe Lee not only to be a great general, but a true Southern Christian gentleman, then that appears to me to be a mantle I'll willingly wear.

As to the majority of Americans, my bet is that vast majority not only don't recognize him but can probably not name more than a handful of folks who were very prominent in the war.

Those of you who denigrate Lee, are in my view, doing a disservice to our history.

well first, i am re-thinking my view of lee.

second, if i said he wasn't great it was in response to those who deem him "the greatest", when we all know that was Ali.
my view on lee is that he was the wrong general , strategically, and tactically, for the confederacy.

thirdly, i agree as to the general lack of knowledge about lee. i know I am still learning.

fourth, because he is called or calls himself a christian, does not make him one and he will be judged by a higher authority than us .

fifth, ask pickett (if you could), a contemporary, if lee was a great general. it is said that at the time lee took the blame but writing in 1868, Lee offered his own take on the battle: "Its loss was occasioned by a combination of circumstances. It was commenced in the absence of correct intelligence. It was continued in the effort to overcome the difficulties by which we were surrounded, and [success] would have been gained, could one determined and united blow have been delivered by our whole line. As it was, victory trembled in the balance for three days, and the battle resulted in the infliction of as great an amount of injury as was received, and in frustrating the Federal campaign for the season." Thinking about Gettysburg reminded Lee even more forcefully how much he and the Confederacy had lost with the death of Stonewall Jackson after Chancellorsville, for, as he wrote, "if Jackson had been at Gettysburg they would have gained a victory."

lastly, those of you who deify, adore, canonize, idolize, or hero-worship him do a disservice to our history.

 

[Andersonh1]

The more I study Robert E. Lee, the more I find to admire about him and his life. And I'm fascinated by his military campaigns as head of the Army of Northern Virginia. I don't think it's necessary to deify him to have a healthy dose of respect and admiration for the man.

 

[CMWinkler]

well first, i am re-thinking my view of lee.

OK.

second, if i said he wasn't great it was in response to those who deem him "the greatest", when we all know that was Ali.
my view on lee is that he was the wrong general , strategically, and tactically, for the confederacy.

You are entitled to your view. I'm curious as to who you believe could have done better than Lee.

thirdly, i agree as to the general lack of knowledge about lee. i know I am still learning.

OK.

fourth, because he is called or calls himself a christian, does not make him one and he will be judged by a higher authority than us .

I must admit this one puzzled me. Of all the criticism I've heard of Lee over lo these many years, questioning his Christianity is a new one on me.

fifth, ask pickett (if you could), a contemporary, if lee was a great general. it is said that at the time lee took the blame but writing in 1868, Lee offered his own take on the battle: "Its loss was occasioned by a combination of circumstances. It was commenced in the absence of correct intelligence. It was continued in the effort to overcome the difficulties by which we were surrounded, and [success] would have been gained, could one determined and united blow have been delivered by our whole line. As it was, victory trembled in the balance for three days, and the battle resulted in the infliction of as great an amount of injury as was received, and in frustrating the Federal campaign for the season." Thinking about Gettysburg reminded Lee even more forcefully how much he and the Confederacy had lost with the death of Stonewall Jackson after Chancellorsville, for, as he wrote, "if Jackson had been at Gettysburg they would have gained a victory."

President Theodore Roosevelt expressed mainstream American sentiment, praising Lee's "extraordinary skill as a General, his dauntless courage and high leadership," adding, "He stood that hardest of all strains, the strain of bearing himself well through the gray evening of failure; and therefore out of what seemed failure he helped to build the wonderful and mighty triumph of our national life, in which all his countrymen, north and south, share."


Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/making-sense-of-robert-e-lee-85017563/#kg2I0Gy1wtQMCrLe.99

I'm sorry but George Pickett is hardly an unbiased source.

lastly, those of you who deify, adore, canonize, idolize, or hero-worship him do a disservice to our history.

Again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I can tell you my namesake felt Robert E. Lee was the greatest man of his generation. I'll defer to his judgment.

 

[cash]

well first, i am re-thinking my view of lee.

second, if i said he wasn't great it was in response to those who deem him "the greatest", when we all know that was Ali.
my view on lee is that he was the wrong general , strategically, and tactically, for the confederacy.

I think Lee's strategic and tactical outlook were both correct. It was only a matter of time before the Union advantage in manufacturing and manpower would take its toll. Lee sought to knock the Federals out as quickly as possible. That he didn't do so says much about the resilience of the Federal Army of the Potomac, which was a great army lacking the leadership they deserved until later in the war.

fifth, ask pickett (if you could), a contemporary, if lee was a great general. it is said that at the time lee took the blame but writing in 1868, Lee offered his own take on the battle: "Its loss was occasioned by a combination of circumstances. It was commenced in the absence of correct intelligence. It was continued in the effort to overcome the difficulties by which we were surrounded, and [success] would have been gained, could one determined and united blow have been delivered by our whole line. As it was, victory trembled in the balance for three days, and the battle resulted in the infliction of as great an amount of injury as was received, and in frustrating the Federal campaign for the season." Thinking about Gettysburg reminded Lee even more forcefully how much he and the Confederacy had lost with the death of Stonewall Jackson after Chancellorsville, for, as he wrote, "if Jackson had been at Gettysburg they would have gained a victory."

Well, Lee never wrote that. He was quoted as saying that by, IIRC, a cousin, but there is no corroboration for that claim.

lastly, those of you who deify, adore, canonize, idolize, or hero-worship him do a disservice to our history.

I agree. There is much to admire about Lee, but he was a man with all the foibles of men.

 

[Rebforever]

"--By his achievements he won a high place amongst the great generals of history. - Though hampered by lack of materials and by political necessities, his strategy was daring always, and he never hesitated to take the gravest risks. On the field of battle he was as energetic in attack as he was constant in defense, and his personal influence over the men whom he led was extraordinary. No student of the American Civil War can fail to notice how the influence of Lee dominated the course of the struggle, and his surpassing ability was never more conspicuously shown than in the last hopeless stages of the contest. The personal history of Lee is lost in the history of the great crisis of America's national life; friends and foes alike acknowledged the purity of his motives, the virtues of his private life, his earnest Christianity and the unrepining loyalty with which he accepted the ruin of his party."

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/About the General.htm

 

[Lost Cause]

Thomas Morris Chester, the only black correspondent for a major daily newspaper (the Philadelphia Press) during the war, had nothing but scorn for the Confederacy, and referred to Lee as a "notorious rebel." But when Chester witnessed Lee's arrival in shattered, burned-out Richmond after the surrender, his dispatch sounded a more sympathetic note. After Lee "alighted from his horse, he immediately uncovered his head, thinly covered with silver hairs, as he had done in acknowledgment of the veneration of the people along the streets," Chester wrote. "There was a general rush of the small crowd to shake hands with him. During these manifestations not a word was spoken, and when the ceremony was through, the General bowed and ascended his steps. The silence was then broken by a few voices calling for a speech, to which he paid no attention. The General then passed into his house, and the crowd dispersed."

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/making-sense-of-robert-e-lee-85017563/

 

[John Winn]

I'm wondering if in some future period, if the American empire is still a thing, will amateur historians be debating the deification of MLK or JFK. In the south Lee sits next to Washington.

These days it's getting hard to find a hero who can last very long much less someone to deify (figuratively or literally). MLK, JFK, and Mother Teresa have all been slammed repeatedly. We've become distrustful and part of that is almost a cult of investigative reporting and dirt digging of anybody in the spotlight for long. I think, in the U.S. anyway, deification by the masses is likely a thing of the past but I admit when it comes to human nature I'm a pessimist.

Lee was a great general and an honorable man in my opinion but he also made mistakes and had flaws - especially if we judge by today's standards - and these days that gets you knocked off your pedestal by most. Not being a religious type I try not to deify anything or anybody so I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak.

 

[unionblue]

The more I study Robert E. Lee, the more I find to admire about him and his life. And I'm fascinated by his military campaigns as head of the Army of Northern Virginia. I don't think it's necessary to deify him to have a healthy dose of respect and admiration for the man.

Andersonh1,

Good post.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[chellers]

those of you who deify, adore, canonize, idolize, or hero-worship him do a disservice to our history.

I'm at least an eighth-generation southerner and have never met anyone who acted according to the above statement. There are some who have great respect and regard for Lee, but deify?, I think not. Such behavior is a bit extreme, and, yes, I do come out from under my rock everyday.

Maybe it's just the type of people with whom I associate.

Just my observations as member.