Lee Deification of Robert E Lee

[C. Kelp]

I don't know where this deification thing comes from but there is one thing for sure, Robert E. Lee was one of the greatest Generals of the World and of the ages. IMO.

it is the title of this thread. here is a quick read, although it is more about longstreet....

http://www.miafacts.org/civil.htm
it is just one page but has some reading recommendations .

the way i see it is .... troop and civilian adoration during the war, the southern need for a hero, lack of choices, the lost cause, reconstruction, and time formed the "fighting saint" view of lee.

 

[C. Kelp]

Elizabeth Brown Pryor, Biographer: People remember that when he would give them a little nod of approval or somehow show that he thought that they were doing a good job, that they felt as if Jove had come down from Olympus and given him a sign of his greatness.

NPR Narrator: Even at 18, Robert E. Lee carried himself as if the command of men was his destiny... as well as his duty.......

Southern partisans deified their now-fallen commander, placing his memory at the head of a grand and noble Lost Cause. The glory that eluded Lee in life attached itself to him in death, turning him, literally, into a bronzed god, a marble man.....

Michael Fellman, Historian: The minute he [lee] dies at the first memorial services both General Early, who was really the political leader of this Lost Cause movement, and Jefferson Davis gave eulogies. And they said, "More than being a great general and a great man he was a pure Christian. And his soul was clear and clean." It was as if they are saying he was a saint. So he can stand in for all that's best in us and we can strive the way he strove and reach this place of a Christian white commonwealth where all is pure.

edited to add this link
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/transcript/lee-transcript/

 

[BillO]

I don't understand why the NPR narrator would think that glory eluded him in life.
Lee was famous in the prewar army and was a very highly regarded engineer. If there had been no civil war he would have still been a great man to those who knew him. That should be good enough as it is.

 

[C. Kelp]

I don't understand why the NPR narrator would think that glory eluded him in life.
Lee was famous in the prewar army and was a very highly regarded engineer. If there had been no civil war he would have still been a great man to those who knew him. That should be good enough as it is.

you would think. here is that whole excerpt:
Narrator: Robert E. Lee had little inclination to work through what his life and his war had
meant... and even less time. In October of 1870, just five and a half years after his surrender,
Lee suffered a massive stroke and died a few days later, at home in Virginia, surrounded by his
family.
In death, as in life, Robert E. Lee divided the nation. The former slave Frederick Douglass spoke
for those who were offended by the "nauseating flatteries of Robert E. Lee"... "It would seem
that the soldier who kills the most men in battle, even in a bad cause, is the greatest Christian,
and entitled to the highest place in heaven."
Southern partisans deified their now- fallen commander, placing his memory at the head of a
grand and noble Lost Cause. The glory that eluded Lee in life attached itself to him in death,
turning him, literally, into a bronzed god, a marble man.

as to what glory, maybe this:
Narrator: Cadet Lee was mindful of his personal talents, and of his place in the world. He was
born into the Virginia aristocracy: his extended clan included a president, a chief justice of the
United States, signers of the Declaration of Independence.
And Lee's own father had been one of the nation's most celebrated Revolutionary War heroes.
As a daring young cavalry commander, Light Horse Harry Lee had won the esteem of General
George Washington and a medal of honor from the Continental Congress.
Even at 18, Robert E. Lee carried himself as if the command of men was his destiny... as well as
his duty.
Peter S. Carmichael, Historian: I'm personally struck by how many of his peers were just
impressed by his physical presence alone. When he walked into a room I think that there was a
sense of dignity and seriousness that immediately got the attention of those around him.

i didn't want to post the whole transcript but the link will take you right there. i think someone here was talking about his relationship with his dad.

 

[Martini-Henry]

after thinking on this a little bit this is my conclusion on lee so far.
as far as being deified , lee comes across as less than jesus or moses and more like aaron .

I think of him as more of Cassandra...he spoke out against secession & it's consequences. But no one listened.

 

[C. Kelp]

I think of him as more of Cassandra...he spoke out against secession & it's consequences. But no one listened.

so did aaron but was corrupted . but after a little more thinking i would say a combination of aaron and joshua would be more accurate.
also Cassandra was viewed as insane.

 

[Martini-Henry]

so did aaron but was corrupted . but after a little more thinking i would say a combination of aaron and joshua would be more accurate.
also Cassandra was viewed as insane.

Aren't most prophets? Cassandra was doomed never to be believed.

 

[C. Kelp]

Aren't most prophets? Cassandra was doomed never to be believed.

cassandra was viewed by her own people to be insane and was never deified by them but was cursed by a deity. neither were aaron or joshua deified and if i trust my own memory that was my point. lee should not be deified because he was full of faults, like the rest of us.

 

[matthew mckeon]

I think by "glory" eluding Lee, the narrator meant victory.

Lee didn't want secession, but besides remarks in personal letters, he didn't really take part in the debates and agitation around secession. So I don't think Cassandra is the right fit for him.

 

[Martini-Henry]

One works with what one has...it was only an observation. I suppose you could say equally that Sherman was Cassandra-esque.

 

[1SGDan]

I think by "glory" eluding Lee, the narrator meant victory.

There are several historic military figures whose status rose above defeat to become glorified military leaders.
Hannibal and Rommel to name just two. Lee certainly qualifies in the same terms.

 

[Martini-Henry]

I think by "glory" eluding Lee, the narrator meant victory.

There are several historic military figures whose status rose above defeat to become glorified military leaders.
Hannibal and Rommel to name just two. Lee certainly qualifies in the same terms.

Possibly the greatest being Napoleon

 

[C. Kelp]

I think by "glory" eluding Lee, the narrator meant victory.

There are several historic military figures whose status rose above defeat to become glorified military leaders.
Hannibal and Rommel to name just two. Lee certainly qualifies in the same terms.

we are talking about "deification" and neither rommel or hannibal were defied. i don't remember the fate of hannibal but i do of carthage and it was almost erased from history. rommel was ordered to commit suicide. they are remembered as great military leaders not gods. however i do not live in north africa or germany so i could be wrong.

the point here is that Lee had set a benchmark for himself and did not achieve it.

 

[C. Kelp]

Robert E. Lee was one of the greatest Generals of the World and of the ages.

based on what ?

 

[cash]

I think of him as more of Cassandra...he spoke out against secession & it's consequences. But no one listened.

He didn't speak out against secession. Writing in a private letter to one's son is not speaking out.

 

[Schwallanscher]

we are talking about "deification" and neither rommel or hannibal were defied. i don't remember the fate of hannibal but i do of carthage and it was almost erased from history. rommel was ordered to commit suicide. they are remembered as great military leaders not gods. however i do not live in north africa or germany so i could be wrong.

the point here is that Lee had set a benchmark for himself and did not achieve it.

hannibal died a loser

modern day rommel-fans are normally fans of his greatest fan, too which kinda scraps all remaining chances (there weren't many, anyway) of deification. them brits are much more in rommel-adoration than we are

 

[1SGDan]

we are talking about "deification" and neither rommel or hannibal were defied. i don't remember the fate of hannibal but i do of carthage and it was almost erased from history. rommel was ordered to commit suicide. they are remembered as great military leaders not gods. however i do not live in north africa or germany so i could be wrong.

the point here is that Lee had set a benchmark for himself and did not achieve it.

My point is that great military leaders are exactly that and nothing more. Deification of any human is simply wrong.

 

[cash]

based on what ?

Based on deification.

 

[C. Kelp]

My point is that great military leaders are exactly that and nothing more. Deification of any human is simply wrong.

i agree but many folks of the time and certainly believers in the lost cause think differently. as one comment above said, " Robert E. Lee was one of the greatest Generals of the World and of the ages." really ? maybe of the civil war but the world and all the ages ? I would argue that Forest was a more brilliant military genius and he is contemporary.

 

[C. Kelp]

Based on deification.

that's just a southern thang. he said the world and the ages.