Deep Thoughts, with Jubal Early

[Wizard of Cozz]

My idea of logistics are the Vicksburg, Tullahoma / Chattanooga Campaigns & March to the Sea. Having no logistical support is a curious choice.

Where do you get that Lee had "no logistical support"? He didn't bring as much food, cause he planned to live off the land to augment his food. That way he could use his prescious wagon space for more ammunition. Staunton, VA was there logistical supply base. Staunton connected by rail to Richmond. So it's not quite true to say he had no logistical support, it was true that he lessened his wagon capacity in the campaign so that he could move faster, and he planned on capturing wagons and supplies to offset any lossees at the beginning.

Grant was advancing to reconnect with his base. Rosecrans created a durable supply line that extended from Cincinnati to Atlanta. Sherman marched to a commotion with the navy. Wandering off into Pennsylvania the way Bragg did in Kentucky is… speaks for itself.

Lee didn't wander off into PA. There routes were planned out way in advance. You again use language to act as if Lee had no idea what he was doing. You're to smart of a person to be engaging in that kind of dialogue.

 

[dgfred]

Deep thoughts... with who???

 

[JeffBrooks]

Looking over this thread, the talk of sending Early's corps to Georgia is interested. I recall that Grant feared it would happen and sent Sherman a telegram warning him of the possibility.

However, most of the posts here suggest that Early would have been sent to oppose Sherman's "March to the Sea". That was in November, a month after Early's force was wrecked at Cedar Creek. It seems to me that the time frame would have been mid-June (sending him west rather than into the Valley) or mid-July (sending him west after the conclusion of the Raid on Washington). In other words, he'd be talking about Early's force being sent to Atlanta before it had fallen to Sherman's army.

What would Johnston or Hood have done with 14,000 crack infantry reinforcements?

And yes, it would not have been easy to get them out there. But as Richard McMurry points out in his book on the Atlanta Campaign, the Confederacy had actually had enormous success utilizing rail transport throughout 1864, rapidly moving Polk's corps from Mississippi to Georgia and rapidly moving troops from the Carolina/Georgia/Florida coast to Virginia.

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Looking over this thread, the talk of sending Early's corps to Georgia is interested. I recall that Grant feared it would happen and sent Sherman a telegram warning him of the possibility.

It would of been interesting.

However, most of the posts here suggest that Early would have been sent to oppose Sherman's "March to the Sea". That was in November, a month after Early's force was wrecked at Cedar Creek. It seems to me that the time frame would have been mid-June (sending him west rather than into the Valley) or mid-July (sending him west after the conclusion of the Raid on Washington). In other words, he'd be talking about Early's force being sent to Atlanta before it had fallen to Sherman's army.

Yeah the time frame is tricky. People over inflated 2nd Corps losses in the valley they went in with 10k and came out of the valley at the end of it with 9k. There were other non 2nd Corps formations that came and went. The bigger loss was in the officer corps obviously.

What would Johnston or Hood have done with 14,000 crack infantry reinforcements?

Depends if they could time it and mask the movement.

And yes, it would not have been easy to get them out there. But as Richard McMurry points out in his book on the Atlanta Campaign, the Confederacy had actually had enormous success utilizing rail transport throughout 1864, rapidly moving Polk's corps from Mississippi to Georgia and rapidly moving troops from the Carolina/Georgia/Florida coast to Virginia.

This is severely underrated.

 

[SWS]

And yes, it would not have been easy to get them out there. But as Richard McMurry points out in his book on the Atlanta Campaign, the Confederacy had actually had enormous success utilizing rail transport throughout 1864, rapidly moving Polk's corps from Mississippi to Georgia and rapidly moving troops from the Carolina/Georgia/Florida coast to Virginia.

Same goes for the Central Railroad in Virginia in spite of it being constantly attacked by the enemy from Dahlgren to Torbert. "The fact that during [1864] 188,342 troops traveled 2,216 miles by troop trains and 616 by ambulance trains, indicates that the Virginia Central Railroad was not only performing its patriotic duty, but was doing a remarkable job with fewer than thirty engines and two hundred cars. The railroad was still operating in 1865 and using practically its whole mileage [in spite of the Federals' successes in the Overland and Valley campaigns]." - The Virginia Central Railroad at War, C.W. Turner

 

[Rhea Cole]

Looking over this thread, the talk of sending Early's corps to Georgia is interested. I recall that Grant feared it would happen and sent Sherman a telegram warning him of the possibility.

However, most of the posts here suggest that Early would have been sent to oppose Sherman's "March to the Sea". That was in November, a month after Early's force was wrecked at Cedar Creek. It seems to me that the time frame would have been mid-June (sending him west rather than into the Valley) or mid-July (sending him west after the conclusion of the Raid on Washington). In other words, he'd be talking about Early's force being sent to Atlanta before it had fallen to Sherman's army.

What would Johnston or Hood have done with 14,000 crack infantry reinforcements?

And yes, it would not have been easy to get them out there. But as Richard McMurry points out in his book on the Atlanta Campaign, the Confederacy had actually had enormous success utilizing rail transport throughout 1864, rapidly moving Polk's corps from Mississippi to Georgia and rapidly moving troops from the Carolina/Georgia/Florida coast to Virginia.

As Early's men arrived ten rail cars at a time without any support elements, what would they have been able to do, exactly? That part of the Early to Georgia movement has never been explained to me.

Battle of Atlanta:

Army of Tennessee

40,000 present

5,500 casualties + a steady flow of deserters

Sherman's army group

35,000 present

3,722 casualties

Link:

Atlanta

The American Battlefield Trust's battle summary of the July 22, 1864, Battle of Atlanta includes history articles and more on the bloodiest battle of the Atlanta Campaign

www.battlefields.org

 

[Trooper "D"]

Thanks. I did infact insert four language in my mind but for matters of taste will not include the things that go on in my head here.

Don't want to reveal too much. Keep 'em guessing.
Cheers!

 

[ColonelBuckwalter]

Don't want to reveal too much. Keep 'em guessing.
Cheers!

I thought this thread was dead! Mercifully dead!

I made it through Earky's autobiographical sketch of the war. Definitely from hunger, as they say. And he made himself look very good. What was missing was his mouth.

But it wasva fun read. Ot was kind if like this pop quiz I had in college about what happened when Greece fell abd the Roman's took over. I wrote this long thing about a dark age, mass killings, figuring, "Hey that is the sort of thing that japoens."

Of course, wrong. But tye teacher gave me a B. I asked him why, having gone back sbd actually reas the material. He asked me if I had wanted an F. I.told him.no but pressed him on why. He looked at me abd smiled and said something to the effect of, "You have the basic concept, but you were totally wrong. It was just so fun to read."

 

[CowCavalry]

It does seem this was a waste of their advantage of interior lines.

Porter Alexander said as much, that was the CSA's greatest advantage, and it was not used property.

 

[CowCavalry]

It is worth noting that there were, depending on the date, sixteen to twenty three Confederate army commands. Apart from the final months, Lee only commanded one of them. Would he have been one of a host of generals who validated the Peter Principle that people are promoted to their level of incompetence? In the end, he was having soldiers shot for telling jokes. Makes you think, don't you know?

Link:

The Highest Ranking Officer in the Confederate Army – The Cleveland Civil War Roundtable

www.clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com

Blah blah blah. Had Lee had anywhere near the resources and man power that Grant had, you would be whistling Dixie even now.