CSS Alabama fight or flee

[wausaubob]

yes, the Alabama had been at sea for almost two years, with very little maintenance, she was badly in need of a refit, and a resupply of ammunition, as was borne out by the battle.

Steam engines wore out. Rigging needed replacement. And I think the ships used tar continuously. The ships aged quickly.

 

[Dixieroy]

Steam engines wore out. Rigging needed replacement. And I think the ships used tar continuously. The ships aged quickly.

Very much so.

 

[wausaubob]

The Alabama fight was the beginning of the end. The US Navy supported Grant's logistics at City Point. Then supported the transfer of reinforcements to Washington, from both Virginia and Louisiana. While the capture rate in the enforcement of the blockade was increasing, Farragut accomplished the long awaited reduction of the forts at the entrance of Mobile Bay. Then Cushing torpedoed the Albermerle with a spar torpedo. The US invaded Brazilian waters to tow the Florida all the way to Virginia, where it sank due to an "accident". Then the navy supported Sherman's march to the sea. A true 19th century armada bombarded Fort Fisher. After Fort Fisher fell, the navy supported the transfer of Schofield's command to North Carolina.
The belligerent that controls the seaways protects its own economy, damages the enemy's economy and can project power 1/2 continent away. Steam magnified the power.
Portsmouth, Boston, Brooklyn and Philadelphia functioned like Old England, and the Midwest became like Prussia, with a lot actual Germans helping.

 

[wausaubob]

After the Kearsage sank the Alabama the US navy had arrived at a level of professionalism that the ad hoc Confederate navy could not match.

 

[Stone in the wall]

Semmes was due to leave the CSS Alabama in Cherbourg, after almost two years at sea he neededed break. And he was to be replaced by Thomas Jefferson Page, who later took the CSS Stonewall across the Atlantic.
having said that, Semmes was never going to run away from a fight.

The Kearsage and another ship would also give chase to the CSS Stonewall. The CSS Stonewall turned about to face them, and they broke off.

 

[Dixieroy]

The Kearsage and another ship would also give chase to the CSS Stonewall. The CSS Stonewall turned about to face them, and they broke off.

Not so,
The USS Niagara and the USS Sacramento shadowed the CSS Stonewall as she went to Ferrol, Spain and Lisbon Portugal.
when the Stonewall left Lisbon, bound hopefully for the USA she approached both ships, ready to fight, but CaptainsCollins and Craven declined Th fight and backed off.

 

[Pollaco]

Not so,
The USS Niagara and the USS Sacramento shadowed the CSS Stonewall as she went to Ferrol, Spain and Lisbon Portugal.
when the Stonewall left Lisbon, bound hopefully for the USA she approached both ships, ready to fight, but CaptainsCollins and Craven declined Th fight and backed off.

And didn't a court martial of at least one of these captains result from this event?

 

[Dixieroy]

And didn't a court martial of at least one of these captains result from this event?

Right captain, wrong event.
Captain Napoleon Collins was in charge of the USS Wachusset when she illegally entered Bahia Harbor, Brazil, to first ram, and then tow away the CSS Florida, a complete breach of international naval law.
The US Supreme Court ordered Gideon Welles to return the CSS Florida, and for Collins to be dismissed. Welles had the Florida scuttled, and refused to sanction Collins.

 

[Pollaco]

Thanks, my last post was a question not some off handed comment.

 

[wausaubob]

Not so,
The USS Niagara and the USS Sacramento shadowed the CSS Stonewall as she went to Ferrol, Spain and Lisbon Portugal.
when the Stonewall left Lisbon, bound hopefully for the USA she approached both ships, ready to fight, but CaptainsCollins and Craven declined Th fight and backed off.

The Stonewall was a powerful ship. But discretion ruled that it was better to see if it could make it across the ocean, and if there was going to be a fight, the US Navy was going to have outnumbered the Stonewall by a large multiple.

 

[leftyhunter]

Right captain, wrong event.
Captain Napoleon Collins was in charge of the USS Wachusset when she illegally entered Bahia Harbor, Brazil, to first ram, and then tow away the CSS Florida, a complete breach of international naval law.
The US Supreme Court ordered Gideon Welles to return the CSS Florida, and for Collins to be dismissed. Welles had the Florida scuttled, and refused to sanction Collins.

Did SCOTUS actually demand that Wells turn the CSS Florida back to the CSN? That be a bizarre ruling.
Leftyhunter

 

[Dixieroy]

The Stonewall was a powerful ship. But discretion ruled that it was better to see if it could make it across the ocean, and if there was going to be a fight, the US Navy was going to have outnumbered the Stonewall by a large multiple.

The Stonewall was a powerful ship. But discretion ruled that it was better to see if it could make it across the ocean, and if there was going to be a fight, the US Navy was going to have outnumbered the Stonewall by a large multiple.

Yes, they did the right thing, the war was almost over, why risk lives to fight a failed cause.

 

[Dixieroy]

Did SCOTUS actually demand that Wells turn the CSS Florida back to the CSN? That be a bizarre ruling.
Leftyhunter

I will check, I know it was a court, and there really is no other to adjudicate such an international incident. Brazil had complained vehemently to the US.

 

[leftyhunter]

I will check, I know it was a court, and there really is no other to adjudicate such an international incident. Brazil had complained vehemently to the US.

Definitely an interesting court case. Of course in 1864 Brazil was hardly a military threat. Brazilian gunners can't even hit the Wasscusetts by fort or ship cannon while towing the CSS Florida. Unless said gunners were severely hung over I can't imagine how they would miss.
Leftyhunter

 

[Dixieroy]

Definitely an interesting court case. Of course in 1864 Brazil was hardly a military threat. Brazilian gunners can't even hit the Wasscusetts by fort or ship cannon while towing the CSS Florida. Unless said gunners were severely hung over I can't imagine how they would miss.
Leftyhunter
[/
I was writing from memory, and guessed it was the Supreme Court, either way, it was obviously a court of some repute, as you will see below.

Catching the Confederate ship completely unprepared for combat, the USS Wachusett rammed the Florida, damaging her hull badly and forcing her Captain to surrender. The Wachussett then towed its prize to the US Navy's base at Hampton Roads, VA. Meantime, diplomats of Brazil and several other countries, filed legal protests against the US and the actions of Commander Collins. The US courts held that Commander Collins had indeed violated the international laws and treaties of the US and ordered the ship to be returned to Brazil. Before this could happen however, the CSS Florida was lost in a questionable collision with the US Army Transport, 'Alliance' in late November of 1864. It was widely believed the sinking was most likely arranged by Admiral David Dixon Porter, a close friend of the 'Alliance's' Captain. Commander Collins for his action of illegal attack and seizure was court-martialed and convicted of violating Brazilian territorial rights; but the verdict was set aside by Secretary of the Navy, Gideon Welles. Collins subsequently won fame and eventual promotion for his daring and was hailed as a hero by the press and readership of the north.

 

[wausaubob]

And 14 years later Dom Pedro opened the American exhibition in Philadelphia with Grant, so Brazil was not too upset about it.

 

[archieclement]

Did SCOTUS actually demand that Wells turn the CSS Florida back to the CSN? That be a bizarre ruling.
Leftyhunter

The court ruled the CSS Florida returned to Brazil, and Collins was court martialed and ordered discharged from service.

Instead the CSS Florida sunk under mysterious circumstances and Welles refused to carry out the court martial order. Perhaps we should be offended by the Gideon Welles statue..........and his disregard for US law........

 

[leftyhunter]

To be fair accidents do happen. I think Welles made the right decision.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

The court ruled the CSS Florida returned to Brazil, and Collins was court martialed and ordered discharged from service.

Instead the CSS Florida sunk under mysterious circumstances and Welles refused to carry out the court martial order. Perhaps we should be offended by the Gideon Welles statue..........

No anything that hurts the cause of slavery is fine and dandy.
Welles is a good guy.
Leftyhunter

 

[archieclement]

No anything that hurts the cause of slavery is fine and dandy.
Welles is a good guy.
Leftyhunter

Disregarding international law by a slaveholding United States hardly hurt the cause of slavery................Jeez......seriously

You realize the USA, CSA, and Brazil were all slaveholding...........its the one thing the three agreed on at the time

As far as a good guy.....maybe his loyalty to Andrew Johnson gives him some redeeming quality.