CSS Alabama fight or flee

[major bill]

So after Judge Terrence Bronson's talk CSS Alabama Confederate Raider at the CWRT tonight, I had afew of questions.

1. How did the CSS Alabama and USS Kearsarge match up on paper?
2. Did Captain Semmes know the armament of the Kearsarge?
3. Should Captain Semmes attempt to flee instead of fight?

I am assuming that Captain Semmes believed he stood a chance in combat. At least to me, it looks like the Alabama had the armament to sink the Kearsarge.
When I look at the stats it appears the Alabama had a chance to try to flee, I am not sure if either ship could make the stated speed at the time of the battle.

 

[redbob]

On paper, the Alabama had the slight edge in armament (two heavy rifles and smoothbores vs. all smoothbores) and speed (13 knots vs. 11); but in reality she was getting rather long in the tooth and was badly needing an overhaul. Maintenance evidently was not a priority on her as among other problems, her powder/ammunition was not well kept, her crew wasn't particularly well trained or disciplined and their gunnery skills had not been particularly tested in some time. On the other hand the Kearsarge was at her prime for the battle, plus her Captain had a plan and stuck to it. What perhaps hurt the Alabama most of all was her Captain's hubris which seemed to dictate him to fight when another Captain may have shown more caution.

 

[major bill]

I have heard about the powder/ammunition issue before, but never been sure if it was a bad as some seem to think. It does make a great excuse for the Alabama losing, but was it a major factor?

 

[redbob]

I have heard about the powder/ammunition issue before, but never been sure if it was a bad as some seem to think. It does make a great excuse for the Alabama losing, but was it a major factor?

The Alabama had not replenished it's powder and ammunition in quite a while (if ever) and they had not evidently taken very good care of what they had. The powder needed to be periodically brought up on deck to be dried in the sun to keep it from caking which would cause it to lose strength and also, if you ever examine closely a picture of the unexploded 110# pound shell that struck the Kearsarge's sternpost; it appears to have not had a fuse put in it. As for the original question, no I doubt that it affected the outcome as much as the Kearsarge's superior marksmanship skills did.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Eyewitnesses reported a distinct difference in the sound of the reports from the Alabama's guns and the Kearsarge's, and that the Southern ship's gunsmoke was thicker and 'dirtier'. In addition, Union sailors noted a number of unexploded shells aboard Kearsarge after the battle. (It is, of course, impossible to determine how many unexploded Union shells were aboard Alabama...)

In addition to this, the Alabama's gunners tended to fire too high and possibly too rapidly; Kearsarge's hull was hit much less frequently than her rigging was.

RE the shell in the sternpost, @redbob , are you certain about that? It would seem to me that the fuse is more likely to have been removed after the fact to safe the shell.

 

[redbob]

Eyewitnesses reported a distinct difference in the sound of the reports from the Alabama's guns and the Kearsarge's, and that the Southern ship's gunsmoke was thicker and 'dirtier'. In addition, Union sailors noted a number of unexploded shells aboard Kearsarge after the battle. (It is, of course, impossible to determine how many unexploded Union shells were aboard Alabama...)

In addition to this, the Alabama's gunners tended to fire too high and possibly too rapidly; Kearsarge's hull was hit much less frequently than her rigging was.

RE the shell in the sternpost, @redbob , are you certain about that? It would seem to me that the fuse is more likely to have been removed after the fact to safe the shell.

In the pictures that I have seen, it appears to have a shipping plug in it but I've never seen a description of how it looked when the sternpost was replaced. The crew evidently didn't see it as much of a problem as it was several months before the Kearsarge had it removed.

 

[Carronade]

Both ships had five-gun broadsides, but Kearsarge had a heavier weight of metal due to her 11-inchers. Alabama's Blakely rifle was probably the most formidable single weapon in the battle, but her aft pivot gun is usually described as an 8" smoothbore.

Semmes certainly would have done more for his country's cause if he could get away and resume his commerce raiding mission. Even a successful battle would likely leave Alabama in need of major repair, if she was able to continue operations at all. Losing one ship would have only slight impact on the Union navy or cause.

Semmes had taken a similar risk the year before when he attacked the Union fleet at Galveston. Again he was abandoning his assigned mission, and unlike Cherbourg where he was blockaded, he had no compelling need to seek combat with the US Navy. As it happens he got away with it and sank the gunboat Hatteras, but it was more hubris than good judgement.

 

[leftyhunter]

So after Judge Terrence Bronson's talk CSS Alabama Confederate Raider at the CWRT tonight, I had afew of questions.

1. How did the CSS Alabama and USS Kearsarge match up on paper?
2. Did Captain Semmes know the armament of the Kearsarge?
3. Should Captain Semmes attempt to flee instead of fight?

I am assuming that Captain Semmes believed he stood a chance in combat. At least to me, it looks like the Alabama had the armament to sink the Kearsarge.
When I look at the stats it appears the Alabama had a chance to try to flee, I am not sure if either ship could make the stated speed at the time of the battle.

Not sure if fleeing was even an option. The Kearsarge was outside Cherbourg Harbor waiting for the Alabama. Waiting out the Kearsarge was not an option.
Leftyhunter

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I believe Semmes' calculus went something like this: If I stay here, I'm here indefinitely (from his experience with CSS Sumter). If I delay, more (and heavier) Union vessels will show up off Cherbourg, so the decision needs to be made now. The Kearsarge is about as even a match as I am likely to encounter, so the issue is at least in doubt; and if she's indifferently captained or suffers an accident, I can either disable or destroy her and make my escape-- or at least simply escape.

 

[redbob]

So, Semmes was plucked out of the water, returned to Richmond, was made an admiral and put in charge of the James River Fleet, scuttled the James River Fleet, joined the retreating army, was made a general, was captured, charged with being a pirate, never brought to trial and lived out his years in Mobile. All in all, I would say that "ole Beeswax" lived quite the life after the Alabama.

 

[USS ALASKA]

I have heard about the powder/ammunition issue before, but never been sure if it was a bad as some seem to think. It does make a great excuse for the Alabama losing, but was it a major factor?

https://books.google.com/books?id=Kf10DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA129&dq=CSS+Alabama+Kell+powder&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9pKKR5oThAhUKrVkKHar7BI0Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q= powder&f=false
131

HTHs,
USS ALASKA

 

[USS ALASKA]

With regards to the sternpost shot...

https://books.google.com/books?id=K...KHar7BI0Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q= powder&f=false

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Dixieroy]

Semmes was due to leave the CSS Alabama in Cherbourg, after almost two years at sea he neededed break. And he was to be replaced by Thomas Jefferson Page, who later took the CSS Stonewall across the Atlantic.
having said that, Semmes was never going to run away from a fight.

 

[Carronade]

If Semmes wanted to try the flee option, it would seem logical to try it at night, unless there was some difficulty in getting out of Cherbourg in the dark.

if he did try to evade Kearsarge and failed, the worst case is that he'd have to fight as he ended up doing. Noting about trying to escape would make the situation any worse than seeking battle directly.

 

[wausaubob]

Semmes could not wait. Kearasage had sent officers ashore to telegraph other US vessels near England. This creates evidence that the sea lane from New York to Liverpool to Cherborg was patrolled by the US. One ship caught up to the Alabama and help was on the way.

 

[wausaubob]

Ships of that era needed frequent maintenance.

 

[Pollaco]

Barnacles?

 

[Dixieroy]

Semmes could not wait. Kearasage had sent officers ashore to telegraph other US vessels near England. This creates evidence that the sea lane from New York to Liverpool to Cherborg was patrolled by the US. One ship caught up to the Alabama and help was on the way.

What actually happened is that the US Consul in Cherbourg, upon hearing that the Alabama was in port, sent word to Winslow, who was in Ostend in Belgium, for him to bring the Kearsage to Cherbourg, monitoring of the sea lanes, in 1864 is extremely unlikely.

 

[Dixieroy]

Ships of that era needed frequent maintenance.

yes, the Alabama had been at sea for almost two years, with very little maintenance, she was badly in need of a refit, and a resupply of ammunition, as was borne out by the battle.

 

[wausaubob]

What actually happened is that the US Consul in Cherbourg, upon hearing that the Alabama was in port, sent word to Winslow, who was in Ostend in Belgium, for him to bring the Kearsage to Cherbourg, monitoring of the sea lanes, in 1864 is extremely unlikely.

OK, but Winslow was in Ostend and there were other US ships a few days away. Patrol might be too strong a word, but the easy hunting for Semmes was in the southern oceans, which Lincoln did not care about. The message from the administration must have been clear, only the British can protect your ship in the southern oceans.