CSN Dinnerware and Tableware

[ChinaSailor]

Hello Everyone,

Well, I've been browsing around the Naval Forum and have learned quite a bit, and I'm sure I have just scratched the surface.

One of the items I did not find was a thread on CW dinnerware and tableware used aboard ship and shore, for enlisted or officer.

So, for those who may have an interest in this I put together a web page many years ago just for CSN china which is owned by other organizations, I just consolidated the images, here it is:
http://www.thepirateslair.com/confederate-states-america-navy.html

Perhaps some day I will acquire a CSN plate or cup for my collection.

Re's

Mike

 

[chellers]

Thanks for providing the link.

 

[16thVA]

Piqued by curiosity I looked for other information on the web and found this one page.

link to the Google books page

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

For anyone interested in purchasing reproduction CSN china, the National Civil War Naval Museum in Columbus ,GA
offers a large selection.

http://www.portcolumbus.org/#!china/c1rxs

 

[ChinaSailor]

Like the article mentioned, Bodey & Co produced a lot of china for the steamship companies and for the British Royal Navy. I have some early 19th century Victorian-era RN mess plates backstamped by Bodey using blue transfer decals. They did nice work. For fine 19th century china the US Navy for its wardroom and senior officers mess went through distributors here in the US and procured some of its dinnerware from the HL Haviland Co in Limoges, France. I have some of this with an early date of 1893.

 

[USS Cumberland]

I know that this is well before the civil war, but it does show American Navy practice as to "cabin furniture". In researching my biography of Captain Johnston Blakeley, USN, 1781-1814 - Shameless plug: "Blakeley and the Wasp: The Cruise of 1814", Stephen W. H. Duffy, Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, 2001, - I came across this little gem.


The following enclosure was in a letter dated March 27, 1811 from the Washington Yard Commander, Captain Thomas Tingey, to the Secretary of the Navy Paul Hamilton, Washington Navy Yard:

"Sir, I have the honor to enclose a requisition, of Lieut. J. Blakeley [Commander] of Cabin Furniture of the [USS] Enterprize.

In submitting this indent for your consideration, I feel it is my duty to state that, when this vessel was fitted from the Yard in 1808, she was furnished with silver table spoons, tea spoons, and other usual plate, with chairs, table clothes, and all the customary articles for the cabin: Not one single material of which was returned with her."

I consider it also incumbent to inform you, that all the vessels equipped from this yard have been furnished with bosun's calls, of silver, very few of which have ever been returned."

[Note: Lieut. Johnston Blakeley, was just then assuming command of the newly repaired Enterprise. Blakeley would immediately set about re-rigging her as a brig.]

"One dozen dishes

Ditto Soup Plates

Ditto shallow plates

Ditto small plates

Ditton tureens - one of tin

2 bowels

2 sugar dishes

1 dozen wine glasses

1 dozen tumblers

2 quart decanters

2 pint decanters

2 salt cellars

1 looking glass

2 tea kettles

2 sugar canisters

1 tea tray

2 waiters

12 table spoons

12 tea spoons

6 iron table spoons

1 set casters

1 soup ladle

1 dozen large knives

1 dozen large forks

1 dozen small knives

1 dozen small forks

12 table clothes

2 ditto covers

12 towels

2 brooms

2 candel sticks

2 pair steel snuffers

1 cork screw

6 chairs

1 coffee mill

1 pepper mill

2 brass cocks

2 brass canisters

1 mattress and [1]pillow.


The above is a list of the furniture wanted for the use of the US schooner Enterprize, washington, 25th March, 1811, J. Blakeley approved and submitted."

North Carolinian Johnston Blakeley was, or course, to go on to glory in the second corvette named the USS Wasp. But he found it very difficult to procure these items for his Wasp in 1813 using, as he stated, this very list, due to wartime shortages in Newburyport, Mass, and Portsmouth, NH. But by this time, the stressed Navy Department was not so picky. The official indent, dated Baltimore, 1813, for use in all the six new corvettes then building [Wasp, Frolick, Peacock, Erie, Ontario and Argus] contained but one word: "discretionary".

 

[ChinaSailor]

excellent post!

I wonder what those patterns of china looked like! I wonder if any of it was pulled from the various submerged wrecks and took photographs of the salvage.

In the 19th and early-mid 20th century (re jet age) many of the worlds navies provided their officer corps with beautiful looking china depicting nautical and naval scenes.

Even the relatively plain china and silverware was elegant and dignified in its simplicity sometimes sporting only a very detailed fouled anchor and edge trim on a white body.

The British Royal Navy had by far the most fantastic dinnerware in the19th century for their messes prior to implementing the general mess on/about 1907.

Great post USS Cumberland!

 

[lowell.b.campbell]

I had the impression that the use of forks was fairly rare in 1814 and did not come into common usage by the average person until that later half of the 1800s.

 

[ChinaSailor]

I had the impression that the use of forks was fairly rare in 1814 and did not come into common usage by the average person until that later half of the 1800s.

Throughout naval history there was a definite distinction between the Officers Mess and the Enlisted Messes. The Officers Mess had the finest dinnerware (matching china sets and silverware) they could afford, while the Enlisted Mess was typically catch as catch can. Up until the late 19th century there was not a "general mess" for enlisted ratings but rather many different messes with each mess made up with sailors who had a common interest.

In the British Royal Navy they kept to these individual messes up until 1907 when the "general mess" was instituted. The individual messes in the RN sometimes were grouped by function, ie; deckhands, carpenters, port side gunners, single guys who lived in London, married guys who lived in Portsmouth, Irish or Welch, etc, etc.

In the American Navy the individual messes were made up by function and in many cases were where each sailor was assigned his sleeping quarters, or berth. In this case they were called the "Berthing Mess".

Now in the Royal Navy in the 19th century all sailors, enlisted and officer alike, each had to procure their own plates, bowls, cups, utensils and for the enlisted ratings they all had to financially contribute to the "mess" which purchased and kept the bowls and plates as well as seasonings to make the meals. While the sailors were expected to bring along their own forks, spoons, knives or anything else they themselves wanted to use as a personal item.

For the sake of conformity in the 19th Century Victorian era the Royal Navy adopted very specific patterns found on plates and bowls which were to be used for the enlisted messes. They had very detailed naval scenes and many were just out and out beautiful. Here is a link for your review:

http://www.thepirateslair.com/8-british-royal-navy-mess-plate-pattern-closeup.html

I believe that the American Navy did not adopt this conformity in dinnerware up until the late 19th century and for the enlisted sailors the pattern was pretty simple: metal enamelware in white with the initials USN in blue with a darker blue rim.

http://www.thepirateslair.com/antique-us-navy-dinnerware.html

and

http://www.thepirateslair.com/4-enlisted-mess-aluminum-plate.html

Anyhow, I hope you all find this of some interest.

Regards,

Mike

 

[RobertP]

Now that is very, very cool.

 

[donna]

This a very interesting thread. I enjoy learning about early dinnerware in all types of areas, whether, home or for the services, like Navy.

 

[ChinaSailor]

glad you find it interesting, I'm a bit hesitant sometimes in posting too much information.

 

[USS Cumberland]

Doesn't it sound, by the way the above quoted letter is worded, that the Enterprise's silver bosun's whistle was officially part of the cabin's 'silver service'?

Such odd placement's abound, since in 1813 the ships-wheel's tiller tackle belonging to the US Sloop-of-War Wasp, made of a very special and expensive soap-greased cable, was not part of the bosun's stores, but instead belonged instead to the gunner stores. Go figgur ...

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I'm a bit hesitant sometimes in posting too much information.

Don't be.
Please post as much information as you desire.
It seems we all learn something new on these forums every day.

 

[ChinaSailor]

Okey doke!

Here's something related to dinnerware and which the members may be interested, in the collectible markets its called "Sanitaryware or Hygieneware" that was used aboard naval vessels that did not have steam engines, hence no interior running water and septic system.

Most sanitaryware was made of porcelain material for items like soap dishes, water goblets, sinks, basins, clean water jugs and slop jars, and even spittoons. The companies which produced china also produced much of the sanitaryware since the materials, ovens, and process used to make plates and bowls was essentially the same as a slop jar.

"Sanitaryware" was used by the US Navy as late as the 1880s and 1890s as the transition took place aboard ship to include the installation of clean water and septic piping.

We have a decent collection of sanitaryware and even have a photograph of similar pieces taken from the Monitor during her salvage. Some of our pieces are of CW era.

here is a link:

http://www.thepirateslair.com/4-usn-hygieneware-sanitaryware.html

Mike

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

See There . . . I just learned sump'n.
That's a subject I had never once thought about.

 

[donna]

Great information. You learn something everyday on this forum. As 7th Mississippi wrote, never had any idea or even thought about this. Thanks for posting.

 

[ChinaSailor]

Here is a page we built just for CW era sanitaryware including a straight razor we picked up. What cannot be seen on this razor is that right on the blade in large text script "US NAVY" and it can only be seen viewing the blade on an angle - it almost looks holographic when slightly turning the blade fore and aft.

http://www.thepirateslair.com/4-stylized-usn-topmark.html

 

[ChinaSailor]

here is a page for a CW soap box or shaving kit. The inside lid at one time held a mirror. This piece still has the retaining wire loop so that it could be hung. The unique aspect of this piece is that it is made from the sap of a tree called "Gutta Percha", and invented and patented by Goodyear in 1852 and was used as a plastic - still used today in some dental situations and electrical components and is heat/flame resistant! Used by both enlisted and officer alike.

http://www.thepirateslair.com/4-civil-war-shaving-kit-gutta-percha.html

 

[ChinaSailor]

Here are some pix of two Civil War Union US Navy straight razors we have in our hygieneware collection. They were made from various manufacturer's and from what I have gathered all from England. The blade on both of these straight razors has the standard regulation "US NAVY" designed right into the blade and the area where the manufacturer marks are one of them also has stamped US Navy. One of the razors still has the original case. Both razors can still be used, and razor sharp.