Colt 3rd Model Dragoon Shoulder Stock

[Bugattimiller]

I am going to view a Colt 3rd Model Dragoon with shoulder stock. The shoulder stock has 2 sequential serial numbers, neither being the revolver serial number. Were there 2 serial numbers on the stock as one stock was issued with a pair of sequentially numbered revolvers? It is very expensive so I want to be careful and not make a huge mistake.

 

[JackADriscoll]

I am going to view a Colt 3rd Model Dragoon with shoulder stock. The shoulder stock has 2 sequential serial numbers, neither being the revolver serial number. Were there 2 serial numbers on the stock as one stock was issued with a pair of sequentially numbered revolvers? It is very expensive so I want to be careful and not make a huge mistake.

Pictures would be helpful. These are highly highly forged items and shouldn't be entered into lightly. We're looking for letters on the stock too

 

[Bugattimiller]

I have attached a few pictures as requested. Any help appreciated, is there anything specific that would identify it as a fake?

 

[JackADriscoll]

I think she looks nice but we got some colt experts @johan_steele

 

[JackADriscoll]

Or @Jeff in Ohio

 

[JOHN42768]

Might want to contact author Charles W. Pate. ( I sent him a message) I know he has been working on a new book on the Colt Dragoon Revolver. Just a guess on my part, it might be part of a cased set of a brace of revolvers

 

[JOHN42768]

I heard back from Charles Pate. This is his response posted with his permission and specifically based on his "Opinion" only and he takes no responsibility as to it's accuracy. "This stock was in the Morphy auction, 11/2022, lot 2233, with pistol 17458. In my opinion the serial numbers on at least the stock butt plate have been restruck. The "W" inspector mark is spurious. Also, the knurled thumb nut is not a factory part (the knurling is wrong). The clamping bar, which holds the stock on the gun, looks like a Colt part and has been used to replace the fake one that was in the stock at the time of the auction. There are several problems with the gun as well." Remember, this response has no hands on factual proof and is purely based on his opinion only of this firearm as shown in the above photos.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I am NOT an expert on the Colt Dragoon. I've never even owned one!
But I did once own a real and untouched Dragoon stock, authenticated as to all aspects. These photos are old and don't show all the details you would want to see (such as the knurling on the thumb nut which is not visible) but you can see this is an untouched stock with some original blue still on it. See how he wood to metal fit looks better than on the photos of the one under discussion.
These stocks were ordinarily supplied one stock to every two revolvers, and so the stocks do have two serials on them, the serials of the two revolvers.
Charles Pate has studied Colt percussion revolvers for decades. He wrote the book on the model 1860 (and this includes his study of the shoulder stocks for the 1860), and is now writing the book on the Dragoon Model.
He and I have traded thoughts for many years on various 1860s we may have seen only in photos - he knows what he is talking about.
Because the shoulder stocks are so rare, he has typically looked very carefully at listings offering them.
I would say that if Mr. Pate saw some parts of the stock were not Colt parts, the serials looked restamped, and the gun with it had "several problems" I would not consider buying this.

 

[JackADriscoll]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for chiming in

 

[Bugattimiller]

Thank you all for your input, there are some very knowledgeable guys out there and I appreciate all the advice. I think I will steer clear of this one.

 

[JackADriscoll]

Thank you all for your input, there are some very knowledgeable guys out there and I appreciate all the advice. I think I will steer clear of this one.

Out of curiosity what was the asking price?

 

[johan_steele]

I am not a pistol guy. Not a fan at all. But, what has been posted is legit as far as I'm concerned. I know the pistol stocks are heavily faked enough so that I would never pay more than the price of a reproduction for one.

 

[Bugattimiller]

In reply to JackADriscoll I am in the UK so everything seems to be more expensive and less choice, understandably. The asking price is £15,000 UK sterling. I had no intention of paying that much but just wanted some reliable info (which I have got with thanks) before a 200 mile wasted drive. I have also been given a lead on a 2nd Model Burnside carbine which I am interested in. I do like the early stuff, I had a 2nd Model Dragoon many years ago but sold it and it went back to the states. Wish I hadn't. No photos of the Burnside yet but will post when I have some.

 

[JackADriscoll]

In reply to JackADriscoll I am in the UK so everything seems to be more expensive and less choice, understandably. The asking price is £15,000 UK sterling. I had no intention of paying that much but just wanted some reliable info (which I have got with thanks) before a 200 mile wasted drive. I have also been given a lead on a 2nd Model Burnside carbine which I am interested in. I do like the early stuff, I had a 2nd Model Dragoon many years ago but sold it and it went back to the states. Wish I hadn't. No photos of the Burnside yet but will post when I have some.

Please do. We love this stuff. I particularly enjoy watching the collectibles market prices. That's 19k us dollars. For that price I'd need an iron provenance and authentication. Glad you found out

 

[Bugattimiller]

What sort of price do 2nd Model Burnsides go for in the US. I have never seen one here in the UK, plenty of later ones which hover around the £2500 UK sterling mark.

 

[JackADriscoll]

They seem to be anywhere between 1500 us to 3500 us for a second model depending on condition and all that