Civil War Trivia Arms Question

[Southron Sr.]

(1) At which armory were the U.S. Model 1841 rifles made that were issued to the 1st Mississippi Regiment on the eve of their departure for Mexico during the Mexican War?

(2) Which model arm was the ONLY .577 caliber rifle ever manufactured within a prison?

(3) Which Confederate pistol was manufactured in Greesnboro, GA?

(4) What is the only rifle-musket that was "officially adopted" by a state that was NEVER manufactured?

(5) What U.S. Model rifle-musket was a slightly improved copy of the above arm?

 

[kansas]

I will try a few guesses. 1 Harpers Ferry 2 Ashville Enfield 3 Leech and Rigdon 4 Virginia Rifle Musket 5 Springfield Colt Special Rifle Musket. However the last is a subject of much debate. A very well respected fellow that used to be on here said it was just as possible the gun was more Enfield than Springfield and was a close copy of one of Colts business buddy Potts from England. After looking at pictures of both side by side I would be inclined to agree with him.

 

[Southron Sr.]

Dear Kansas:

Great Guessing! Unfortunately your answers 1 & 2 were wrong. However, you were pretty much right on everything else. The prototype of the Virginia Model Musket was made at Springfield along with that of the U.S. Special Model 1861 Rifle-Musket. Contrary to popular opinion, Colt didn't design the Speciall Model of 1861.

 

[Virginia22]

1. Springfield?????

2. A guess, LA co. Enfield.

 

[Virginia22]

Long Arm Trivia Question: What was the only Enfield pattern rifled musket, .577 caliber, made entirely in the United States ?

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Long Arm Trivia Question: What was the only Enfield pattern rifled musket, .577 caliber, made entirely in the United States ?

The Windsor Enfield type rifle made by Robbins & Lawrence of Windsor, Vermont.

 

[Virginia22]

Correct !!!!!!! Good job!!!!!!

 

[Southron Sr.]

The U.S. Model 1841 Rifles issued to the 1st Mississippi regiment on their way to Mexico during the Mexican War were made by Whitney.
I ran across that little gem when I ran across a book published in the 1850's by a member of the regiment. He states that they were issued the rifles when shortly after they arrived in New Orleans on their way to Mexico. Also, realize that Whitney was the FIRST contractor to deliver Mississippi Rifles.

The only .577 Rifles ever made in a prison were the "Georgia Armory Rifles" that were manufactured in the Georgia Penitentiary, Milledgeville, Georgia in 1862/63. When I was in the Georgia Archives I compared a list of the employees of the armory and a list of the inmates of the prison for 1862. None of the names matched. So, the armory was only housed in the penitentiary and the armory workers were hired employees and not prisoners.

Production of the rifles ceased in 1853 because by then the Confederate Ordnance Department was supplying Georgia troops with arms AND Governor Joe Brown decided to convert the armory into a Cotton Card Factory.

The idea being that the sale of Cotton Cards would help pay the state's wartime debt. Oh yes! In 1862 the Confederacy "Officially Adopted" the .577 caliber. So just like Richmonds and Fayettevilles, Georgia Armory Rifles were .677 caliber.


Regarding the Special Model of 1861. The prototype was made at Springfield Armory by presumably the same workers that had also built the prototype Virginia Model Musket. That the prototype Special Model 1861 was made at Springfield is supported by records there. There is also a Special Model 1861 lockplate still in existence that is marked "Springfield" and is believed to be from the prototype arm.

 

[Virginia22]

The U.S. Model 1841 Rifles issued to the 1st Mississippi regiment on their way to Mexico during the Mexican War were made by Whitney.
I ran across that little gem when I ran across a book published in the 1850's by a member of the regiment. He states that they were issued the rifles when shortly after they arrived in New Orleans on their way to Mexico. Also, realize that Whitney was the FIRST contractor to deliver Mississippi Rifles.

The only .577 Rifles ever made in a prison were the "Georgia Armory Rifles" that were manufactured in the Georgia Penitentiary, Milledgeville, Georgia in 1862/63. When I was in the Georgia Archives I compared a list of the employees of the armory and a list of the inmates of the prison for 1862. None of the names matched. So, the armory was only housed in the penitentiary and the armory workers were hired employees and not prisoners.

Production of the rifles ceased in 1853 because by then the Confederate Ordnance Department was supplying Georgia troops with arms AND Governor Joe Brown decided to convert the armory into a Cotton Card Factory.

The idea being that the sale of Cotton Cards would help pay the state's wartime debt. Oh yes! In 1862 the Confederacy "Officially Adopted" the .577 caliber. So just like Richmonds and Fayettevilles, Georgia Armory Rifles were .677 caliber.


Regarding the Special Model of 1861. The prototype was made at Springfield Armory by presumably the same workers that had also built the prototype Virginia Model Musket. That the prototype Special Model 1861 was made at Springfield is supported by records there. There is also a Special Model 1861 lockplate still in existence that is marked "Springfield" and is believed to be from the prototype arm.

Good questions, those were tough! On your first question, were there not only two "armories" in the U.S. at the time of the Mexican War? Harpers Ferry and Springfield. I would consider Whitney a private contractor, when you used the term "armory" I assumed you were describing a goverment run facility. I bet you threw other people too with that term.

 

[Virginia22]

Also, Model 1853 Enfields used by British troops were made at the Tower of London right. The Tower of London has been used as a prison, torture chamber etc. ( Not the Birmingham Enfields that were marked Tower.)

 

[Virginia22]

Good questions, those were tough! On your first question, were there not only two "armories" in the U.S. at the time of the Mexican War? Harpers Ferry and Springfield. I would consider Whitney a private contractor, when you used the term "armory" I assumed you were describing a goverment run facility. I bet you threw other people too with that term.

On question 5. Are you sure about the 1861 Special Model being manufactured at Springfield. Or are we talking about just one or two prototypes. The book "Springfield Armory Shoulder weapons 1795-1968" by Robert W.D. Ball does not include the Special Model as weapons manufactured at Springfield. I have never heard that.

 

[ole]

Also, Model 1853 Enfields used by British troops were made at the Tower of London right. The Tower of London has been used as a prison, torture chamber etc. ( Not the Birmingham Enfields that were marked Tower.)

The Tower mark indicates that the rifle was proofed by a government facility. It has nothing to do with the Tower of London except, maybe, that it was proofed there.

 

[johan_steele]

The prototype Special Model 1861 was first manufactured by Colt, the "Guage" prototype & all the guages for the standardiation were manufactured at Springfield. No Special Models M1861's were actually manufactured at Springfield. As a resource use Fuller instead of Ball. Ball's work is not as complete as the similar work by Fuller.

On question 5. Are you sure about the 1861 Special Model being manufactured at Springfield. Or are we talking about just one or two prototypes. The book "Springfield Armory Shoulder weapons 1795-1968" by Robert W.D. Ball does not include the Special Model as weapons manufactured at Springfield. I have never heard that.

 

[johan_steele]

The only percussion rifle manufactured at Springfield prior to the M1855 was the Special Model M1842, aka Fremont. No M1841's were manufactured at Springfield.

 

[Virginia22]

The prototype Special Model 1861 was first manufactured by Colt, the "Guage" prototype & all the guages for the standardiation were manufactured at Springfield. No Special Models M1861's were actually manufactured at Springfield. As a resource use Fuller instead of Ball. Ball's work is not as complete as the similar work by Fuller.

Right, this is what I thought also.

 

[Virginia22]

The only percussion rifle manufactured at Springfield prior to the M1855 was the Special Model M1842, aka Fremont. No M1841's were manufactured at Springfield.

Right, all prior musket/rifles were original flintlock before the Model 1842 that were made at Springfield.
Your answer is a play with words.

 

[Virginia22]

The U.S. Model 1841 Rifles issued to the 1st Mississippi regiment on their way to Mexico during the Mexican War were made by Whitney.
I ran across that little gem when I ran across a book published in the 1850's by a member of the regiment. He states that they were issued the rifles when shortly after they arrived in New Orleans on their way to Mexico. Also, realize that Whitney was the FIRST contractor to deliver Mississippi Rifles.

The only .577 Rifles ever made in a prison were the "Georgia Armory Rifles" that were manufactured in the Georgia Penitentiary, Milledgeville, Georgia in 1862/63. When I was in the Georgia Archives I compared a list of the employees of the armory and a list of the inmates of the prison for 1862. None of the names matched. So, the armory was only housed in the penitentiary and the armory workers were hired employees and not prisoners.

Production of the rifles ceased in 1853 because by then the Confederate Ordnance Department was supplying Georgia troops with arms AND Governor Joe Brown decided to convert the armory into a Cotton Card Factory.

The idea being that the sale of Cotton Cards would help pay the state's wartime debt. Oh yes! In 1862 the Confederacy "Officially Adopted" the .577 caliber. So just like Richmonds and Fayettevilles, Georgia Armory Rifles were .677 caliber.


Regarding the Special Model of 1861. The prototype was made at Springfield Armory by presumably the same workers that had also built the prototype Virginia Model Musket. That the prototype Special Model 1861 was made at Springfield is supported by records there. There is also a Special Model 1861 lockplate still in existence that is marked "Springfield" and is believed to be from the prototype arm.

In question 2.- Flayderman's lists the Georgia Armory Rifle as .58 caliber. Is Flaydermans incorrect.

 

[Virginia22]

The Tower mark indicates that the rifle was proofed by a government facility. It has nothing to do with the Tower of London except, maybe, that it was proofed there.

Yes ole, thats correct, except for the Royal Arms Manufacture Enfields that the British troops used. Those did come from the actual Tower of London. These are marked with a VR under the crown at the rear of the lock. Most collectors do not consider these American Civil War arms.

 

[Virginia22]

The only percussion rifle manufactured at Springfield prior to the M1855 was the Special Model M1842, aka Fremont. No M1841's were manufactured at Springfield.

Wasn't the "Fremont Rifle" just a Model 1842 that was modified, cut down etc. It wasn't a seperately manufacture model. What I mean to say is it started life as a Model 1842.
The "Fremont" is not listed in Flaydermans because its not its own model that was manufacture at Springfield. The cutting down and modifications were done at Springfield however.

 

[johan_steele]

Little is known of the actual manufacture, but it was/is a seperate entity from the standard M1842. The front barrel band was different as was the lockplate. Flaydermans is not a bible, go w/ Fuller if you want a bible.

Wasn't the "Fremont Rifle" just a Model 1842 that was modified, cut down etc. It wasn't a seperately manufacture model. What I mean to say is it started life as a Model 1842.
The "Fremont" is not listed in Flaydermans because its not its own model that was manufacture at Springfield. The cutting down and modifications were done at Springfield however.