Civil War Bullet Mold

[Mark A]

Does anyone know why the right block of this mold has a crescent shaped cut out?

 

[JOHN42768]

Are there any marking on the mold? Not a clue

 

[Mark A]

Completely unmarked but I do know that it is for the 44 caliber Allen & Wheelock Army revolver.

 

[JOHN42768]

Maybe it will register with someone

 

[UCVRelics]

I believe its just a flaw in the mold as that is not normal to any mold.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

What you are looking at is an old time gunsmith trick! When the blank moulds were cast sometimes the cavities weren't quite perfect by being too large to cut a good bullet cavity. When that happened the cavity was closed up by pushing the metal over with a cold chisel. Then the mould cavity was cut making a perfect and complete cavity to cast a good bullet. This is quite common on Kentucky Rifle moulds, but rather uncommon on military moulds.

J.

 

[DixieRifles]

a cold chisel. Then the mould cavity was cut making a perfect and complete cavity

That what it looks like. But I can't imagine cold working the brass so it would form a "perfect" sphere at the right caliber.

I first tried my hand at molding round balls with replica brass molds. Not sure if the molds were sold with the Navy Arms pistols. One mold had fair results but the other has mismatched halves.

 

[UCVRelics]

That makes a lot of sense. Learned something new today. You can teach and old dog a new trick.

 

[Mark A]

What you are looking at is an old time gunsmith trick! When the blank moulds were cast sometimes the cavities weren't quite perfect by being too large to cut a good bullet cavity. When that happened the cavity was closed up by pushing the metal over with a cold chisel. Then the mould cavity was cut making a perfect and complete cavity to cast a good bullet. This is quite common on Kentucky Rifle moulds, but rather uncommon on military moulds.

J.

That sloves a long time mystery for me. It's an iron mold, sorry the lighting makes it appear to be brass. I've owned this mold for ages. Thanks JH!

 

[Jobe Holiday]

For those who do not have a background in metal working, you just can't imagine how much and how far you can move or stretch metal with a chisel, a punch, and a peen!
J.

 

[frankconrad]

The mold was not cast, the cavity was cut with a cherry. The Cherry is like a ball with a stem on it, with teeth on it . after the mold is fitted so both halves fit flat against each other. drill a hole the size of the stem on the center line of the two halves turn the cherry while turning the cherry, until the mold is closed and you have a bullet mold. is the way the old molds were made.
Bullets were made the same way except the cherry was a duplicate of the bullet.
Making the cherry is the hard part, forming the ball, fileing the teeth , hardening.
It looks to me that the mold hade a problem and the gunsmith swaged the mold so that he could salvage the mold.

 

[mofederal]

Thanks for the great information. I did not know this, but most of dealings with molds has been with Winchester .25-20's and with a Starr Carbine. Thanks @Mark A for the tread and I appreciate all of the info.

 

[Mark A]

The mold was not cast, the cavity was cut with a cherry. The Cherry is like a ball with a stem on it, with teeth on it . after the mold is fitted so both halves fit flat against each other. drill a hole the size of the stem on the center line of the two halves turn the cherry while turning the cherry, until the mold is closed and you have a bullet mold. is the way the old molds were made.
Bullets were made the same way except the cherry was a duplicate of the bullet.
Making the cherry is the hard part, forming the ball, fileing the teeth , hardening.
It looks to me that the mold hade a problem and the gunsmith swaged the mold so that he could salvage the mold.

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!

 

[Jobe Holiday]

@frankconrad - I believe you have misunderstood me. The bullet moulds were cast, or drop forged, with a smaller basic cavity complete with a pouring hole for the sprue. They were then finished by gently closing it around the Cherry for a finish cut. If it left a void, then the cavity was closed up by the previously noted method and recut. Yes, a Cherry is a form of a mill cutter in the finished shape of the bullet, but the cutting grooves do not have the clearance for the type of milling you are describing. They did not start with a solid blank mould and squeeze the blank halves together against the spinning Cherry until the cavity was finally cut into both halves. The cutting edges of the grooves on a Cherry are very fine and intended for finish cutting only, not the type of lateral plunge milling you are describing, This is also a form of "climb milling", which you really don't want to do! Because there is no clearance, with your method the machine would have to be stopped frequently to clean out the chips, if not done it will cause "galling" in the cavity which would create an unusable mould. I have quite a few old gunsmith mould Cherries in my collection, and I am a Machinist.
J.

 

[frankconrad]

Jobe
I learned how to Make molds and Cherrys from V. M. Starr in Eden SD, yes we had to clear the chips out but it works. With care you can make good a mold. Not for production but for a few it works. the old Gunsmiths did not have a machine shop most at best had a lathe. Yes you have a climb cut but on each half which offsets each other. Plenty of cutting oil will flush the chips out until you have the mold mostly cut.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Great! We are on the same page! What do you think about the production level operation required to mass produce moulds during the Civil War era, as opposed to single, one mould at a time, operations as you have described?
J.

 

[frankconrad]

Jobe
I really can't offer much, I never gave it any thought.
With our inter Changeable abilty, ability, it would be a matter of milling, casting, drop forging, fixtures.
It is my understanding that most CW bullets were swaged, Very few were cast.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Frankconrad - Yes, swaging was in full operation. I don't know about pistol bullets, and should probably dig out Dean Thomas set of "Round Ball To Rimfire" to learn more about them!
J.