Civil War Brogans

[Billw12280]

The Horse Soldier recently listed a

MINT CONDITION PAIR OF CIVIL WAR BROGANS — Horse Soldier
http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/uniforms-and-cloth/uniforms/26902

This is the first such pair I have seen for sale and it raises the question, how rare are these shoes? I know footwear was a major concern during the war due to limited quantities and the inability to manufacture them on a large scale. Who manufactured the shoes for the union troops? How many pair were issued during the war?

 

[WJC]

Interesting question. There were certainly millions made, but how many survive?

 

[Billw12280]

Interesting question. There were certainly millions made, but how many survive?

I'm sure they wore out quickly and were, like trousers, an item that could be worn daily after the war ended. The survival rate must be minimal considering the amount of marching the foot troops did. I know the Confederate army had difficulty procuring enough shoes for their men, hence the "legend" of the start of the battle of Gettysburg.

 

[Ralph Heinz]

While those may indeed be army brogans -- how would we ever know if such a pair were instead simply worker's shoes of that time period? Millions of civilian men were wearing cheaply made shoes to work every day particularly in factories. Before I'd spend a lot of money for a pair I'd want to know they were documented to a particular soldier and came out of a trunk in an attic with his uniform, etc. I've owned some really great pairs of time period boots but wouldn't have bet my life they had been worn in the war by someone in uniform.

 

[Billw12280]

While those may indeed be army brogans -- how would we ever know if such a pair were instead simply worker's shoes of that time period? Millions of civilian men were wearing cheaply made shoes to work every day particularly in factories. Before I'd spend a lot of money for a pair I'd want to know they were documented to a particular soldier and came out of a trunk in an attic with his uniform, etc. I've owned some really great pairs of time period boots but wouldn't have bet my life they had been worn in the war by someone in uniform.

That is an excellent point. I am not sure what differences, if any, there were between military shoes and civilian shoes of the period. I reread the description and they do not claim these to have been military issued shoes. That being said the Horse Soldier is a reputable dealer that I definitely put trust in. I would imagine if these shoes could be identified as military issue or belonging to a soldier they would command a far higher price? I found these, albeit sold in 2008, that sold for 6 times the asking price of these shoes.

https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit...e-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|0

And these ones also sold in 2008 that sold for almost twice the asking price.

https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit...e-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|1

Can anyone distinguish between civilian shoes and military issue shoes? Would all military issued shoes have been stamped by an inspector?

 

[Package4]

The Horse Soldier recently listed a

MINT CONDITION PAIR OF CIVIL WAR BROGANS — Horse Soldier
http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/uniforms-and-cloth/uniforms/26902

This is the first such pair I have seen for sale and it raises the question, how rare are these shoes? I know footwear was a major concern during the war due to limited quantities and the inability to manufacture them on a large scale. Who manufactured the shoes for the union troops? How many pair were issued during the war?

Extremely rare and if a pair can be identified with provenance as an issued pair, they go for around $6,500. They were utilitarian and worn until they wore out and tossed. Soldiers wore them home and wore them out...….

 

[Package4]

That is an excellent point. I am not sure what differences, if any, there were between military shoes and civilian shoes of the period. I reread the description and they do not claim these to have been military issued shoes. That being said the Horse Soldier is a reputable dealer that I definitely put trust in. I would imagine if these shoes could be identified as military issue or belonging to a soldier they would command a far higher price? I found these, albeit sold in 2008, that sold for 6 times the asking price of these shoes.

https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit...e-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|0

And these ones also sold in 2008 that sold for almost twice the asking price.

https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit...e-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|1

Can anyone distinguish between civilian shoes and military issue shoes? Would all military issued shoes have been stamped by an inspector?

There are tell tale signs of contract pieces that were germane to the US Army contracts, the sewn and riveted area is one sign of a mid to late war contract piece. Often you will see two rivets just forward of the heel (sole). When I get a chance I'll post pictures of some brogans in my collection.

 

[Billw12280]

There are tell tale signs of contract pieces that were germane to the US Army contracts, the sewn and riveted area is one sign of a mid to late war contract piece. Often you will see two rivets just forward of the heel (sole). When I get a chance I'll post pictures of some brogans in my collection.

It appears the Horse Soldier brogans are sewn and riveted. So, with that in mind, you would say the pair the Horse Soldier is selling is mid to late war military contract shoes? I would love to see the brogans that you have in your collection.

 

[zburkett]

Sad story. In the early 80s I had just moved to Virginia and could study the War from local sites. On a visit to an old building that had been a hospital after both Manassas and was being renovated, I picked up an old holster and an ink laying next to the dumpster. What I did not know to pick up was the 20 or so brogans that were also laying next to the dumpster.

 

[Billw12280]

Sad story. In the early 80s I had just moved to Virginia and could study the War from local sites. On a visit to an old building that had been a hospital after both Manassas and was being renovated, I picked up an old holster and an ink laying next to the dumpster. What I did not know to pick up was the 20 or so brogans that were also laying next to the dumpster.

That's a shame. Hopefully they did not end up going to some landfill. I'm picturing some lucky collector coming out of an alley with an armload of old beat up shoes smiling from ear to ear.

Honestly it is not something that most people would think about being collectible. When you think of, for example, Abraham Lincoln's wardrobe the first thing that comes to mind is probably his hat, then his suit and frock. Nobody ever thinks about his shoes, we all know he wore shoes but that's not what comes to mind. Nobody goes to the Smithsonian to see his clothes and says "yes, but what about his shoes?".

 

[Si Klegg]

Always an eye-opener seeing shoes from the 1800's in museums and displays. Their feet were tiny!

 

[zburkett]

Billw, I have the same dream of a happy collector walking away from an alley with an armload of shoes, but the collector is me and now it is a nightmare. It has taught me the value of study.

 

[Billw12280]

Billw, I have the same dream of a happy collector walking away from an alley with an armload of shoes, but the collector is me and now it is a nightmare. It has taught me the value of study.

Don't beat yourself up too much, hindsight is always 20/20. We all have the "I wish" moment, mine is usually "I wish I had done more research before buying that". I'm certainly doing better with the research aspect lately.

 

[Billw12280]

Always an eye-opener seeing shoes from the 1800's in museums and displays. Their feet were tiny!

I thought that when I bought my first uniform and saw it would fit my 10 year old daughter perfectly. People were definitely a lot smaller in those days.

 

[Si Klegg]

I thought that when I bought my first uniform and saw it would fit my 10 year old daughter perfectly. People were definitely a lot smaller in those days.

Now you're embarrassing me

When I sent my measurements to Nick Sekela for a JT Martin sack coat and trousers, he had to check twice because he'd never before made an Army size #1 !

Still got size 9 feet though

 

[Billw12280]

Now you're embarrassing me

When I sent my measurements to Nick Sekela for a JT Martin sack coat and trousers, he had to check twice because he'd never before made an Army size #1 !

Still got size 9 feet though

Well, this started as a thread about shoes so I guess it's fitting that I open my mouth and insert foot . No offense intended .

Speaking of putting my foot in my mouth, I heard a story once that starving Confederate troops would boil their shoe leather to eat. At first glance this sounds highly unlikely since shoes were so coveted and in low supply but if you're hungry enough I guess you'll eat anything to survive. I'm not sure if there is any truth to this story but I would have rather eaten the hardtack lol.

 

[Si Klegg]

Well, this started as a thread about shoes so I guess it's fitting that I open my mouth and insert foot . No offense intended .

Speaking of putting my foot in my mouth, I heard a story once that starving Confederate troops would boil their shoe leather to eat. At first glance this sounds highly unlikely since shoes were so coveted and in low supply but if you're hungry enough I guess you'll eat anything to survive. I'm not sure if there is any truth to this story but I would have rather eaten the hardtack lol.

No worries Bill, I gained in other ways … my uniforms were usually cheaper than anyone else's - helluva difference in yardage between a size #1 and a size #4

As to the 'b'iled leather', yes I've read or heard that somewhere too. May have been one of the books on Andersonville or the Feds on the 'Cracker Line' at Chattanooga. Don't know if you guys have a similar saying over there, but one of my favourite Britishisms is 'I'm so hungry my stomach thinks my throat's been cut ...'

 

[zburkett]

In the winter of 63/64 here in Orange County, VA the Confederate soldiers even barefoot still had to do their guard duty. The officers were afraid they would throw away their shoes to get out of duty.

 

[Belle Montgomery]

Well, this started as a thread about shoes so I guess it's fitting that I open my mouth and insert foot . No offense intended .

Speaking of putting my foot in my mouth, I heard a story once that starving Confederate troops would boil their shoe leather to eat. At first glance this sounds highly unlikely since shoes were so coveted and in low supply but if you're hungry enough I guess you'll eat anything to survive. I'm not sure if there is any truth to this story but I would have rather eaten the hardtack lol.

LOL Perhaps that practice is not as uncommon as you think:

Leather lace spaghetti-YUM!

 

[Billw12280]

I love that routine.

The man was a genius, my all time favorite may possibly be his speech from The Great Dictator though.