Cavalry Saber Identifying Marks INFO

[KathrynP]

Hi there! I am curious if anyone could help me with identifying marks that would be on an Illinois Cavalry Saber?

I made another post about searching for my 3x great grandfathers civil war saber that was sold in 2014. I have never seen the sword, so any help narrowing down what identifying marks to be on the lookout for would be so helpful!

Ezra King was born in 1815 in Kentucky. moved to Cairo Illinois before the war.
Mustered in at Cairo on August 10th, 1861 as a 1st Lieutenant in the 15th Illinois volunteer Cavalry Company A. Also known as Stewarts Independent Battalion
Was Promoted to Captain February 1st, 1862.
Provided his own Horse.
He was a cooper and farmer in Cairo. One of his sons was a Lath Maker.
I don't know his whereabouts in 1850. I am searching for military records of him possibly being a dragoon? He did not serve in any other wars.
Mustered Out August 25th 1864

what manufacturing marks and/or inspectors marks would be on a cavalry officers sword in Illinois/Missouri?
Color description of the handle?

My father has seen it once or twice and the only description he could give me about it was "painted silver" whatever that means. lol

 

[UCVRelics]

Hi there! I am curious if anyone could help me with identifying marks that would be on an Illinois Cavalry Saber?

I made another post about searching for my 3x great grandfathers civil war saber that was sold in 2014. I have never seen the sword, so any help narrowing down what identifying marks to be on the lookout for would be so helpful!

Ezra King was born in 1815 in Kentucky. moved to Cairo Illinois before the war.
Mustered in at Cairo on August 10th, 1861 as a 1st Lieutenant in the 15th Illinois volunteer Cavalry Company A. Also known as Stewarts Independent Battalion
Was Promoted to Captain February 1st, 1862.
Provided his own Horse.
He was a cooper and farmer in Cairo. One of his sons was a Lath Maker.
I don't know his whereabouts in 1850. I am searching for military records of him possibly being a dragoon? He did not serve in any other wars.
Mustered Out August 25th 1864

what manufacturing marks and/or inspectors marks would be on a cavalry officers sword in Illinois/Missouri?
Color description of the handle?

My father has seen it once or twice and the only description he could give me about it was "painted silver" whatever that means. lol

Illinois only has index card and his is below. As far as his sword it would have been a cavalry sword but there were many makers and being a officer he would have purchased his own. It could be any number of cavalry officers sword makers or models from the model 1840 or the model 1860.

 

[KathrynP]

@ucvrelics thank you so much for the image of the sword!

I actually have his complete civil war records that I ordered from gopherrecords.com they are incredible! I have all his cards, letters requesting leave, and his pension application from 1884 and all the correspondence regarding it! I highly recommend gopher records for anyone looking for information on their civil war soldier.

 

[bayonet]

Good luck finding that, like a needle in a haystack. Don't feel bad an Aunt sold my GG Grandfathers cavalry sword to a Tinker (junk dealer) in the 1930s. Just surf website dealers that sell ACW items and you should find Officer type cavalry sabers (Union) for sale like he might of carried. Of coarse they will cost a bit more that a plain 1840 or 1860 saber. Last I saw www.azswords.com had one (Arizona Sword).

 

[Story]

You'll want to read and copy the entire entry link at bottom.

After receiving orders to travel up the White River, Major Eagleton Carmichael, commander of the expedition, and Captain Ezra King of the Fifteenth Illinois Cavalry embarked on February 20, 1864, from Helena aboard the Cheek, leaving at 5:00 p.m.

White River Expedition (February 20–26, 1864)

White River Expedition (February 20–26, 1864) - Encyclopedia of Arkansas

Location: White River, Big Creek, Thomas' Mill, Helena (Phillips County) Campaign: None Date: February 20–26, 1864 Principal Commanders: Major ...

encyclopediaofarkansas.net

 

[KathrynP]

You'll want to read and copy the entire entry link at bottom.



White River Expedition (February 20–26, 1864)

White River Expedition (February 20–26, 1864) - Encyclopedia of Arkansas

Location: White River, Big Creek, Thomas' Mill, Helena (Phillips County) Campaign: None Date: February 20–26, 1864 Principal Commanders: Major ...

encyclopediaofarkansas.net

Thank you so much! In fact, I found that article couple months ago. Isnt it incredible!?!? I live in Arkansas, Helena isn't that far from me, I want to get a metal detector and go search for items. And it would be so fun to visualize Captain King telling his soldiers to mount up and head toward Thomas Mill when they "heard the volley".... not to mention the "grueling cross of Big Creek"!!!

 

[KathrynP]

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[Sundance]

With thousands of Civil War swords out there you're most likely not going to find your ancestors sword. Sadly, it does not seem that you could identify it if it passed through your hands. But any similar officer's cavalry sword will, I suspect, give you a thrill. Just holding a Civil War sword is a treat even though you can't know where it's been and what it has seen. You'll be able to say this is the kind of sword your GGG grandfather King carried in the War.

 

[bayonet]

Good luck finding that, like a needle in a haystack. Don't feel bad an Aunt sold my GG Grandfathers cavalry sword to a Tinker (junk dealer) in the 1930s. Just surf website dealers that sell ACW items and you should find Officer type cavalry sabers (Union) for sale like he might of carried. Of coarse they will cost a bit more that a plain 1840 or 1860 saber. Last I saw www.azswords.com had one (Arizona Sword).

Actually I just took a look, he has more than 1 up for sale!

 

[lupaglupa]

It would be more likely to have a link to your ancestor if it was a presentation sword - those were often engraved.

 

[bayonet]

It would be more likely to have a link to your ancestor if it was a presentation sword - those were often engraved.

Only if his fellow Officers and Troops under him liked and respected him to present him with a personalized sword. If they didn't like him he'd have to buy his own sword!

 

[JOHN42768]

Any decent Officers Cavalry Saber is going to cost considerable more than an enlisted version. There were very few officers version in comparison to standard enlisted version. If you are content with a representation go with a standard enlisted. As to markings it is unlikely anything to tie it to one person unless a presentation piece. Each manufacture used their own markings and any acceptance marks only give you the year and initials of inspector

 

[KathrynP]

Only if his fellow Officers and Troops under him liked and respected him to present him with a personalized sword. If they didn't like him he'd have to buy his own sword!

I know that one in particular didn't like him! 23 years later he tried to file for invalid pension for a smashed ankle injury during the war. (He was actually, old, sick, and poor) They asked for accounts from fellow soldiers, and one guy said "he never told the truth. I don't know what he would need a pension for."
When I saw that I said, don't talk about my gran-pappy that way!!
It definitely put some cold water on my vision in my minds eye of my "Civil war Captain GGGGrandfather"
But yeah, I'm fairly certain he bought his own sword. He also supplied his own horse.

 

[KathrynP]

Any decent Officers Cavalry Saber is going to cost considerable more than an enlisted version. There were very few officers version in comparison to standard enlisted version. If you are content with a representation go with a standard enlisted. As to markings it is unlikely anything to tie it to one person unless a presentation piece. Each manufacture used their own markings and any acceptance marks only give you the year and initials of inspector

I doubt it was an officers version saber. I am mainly curious if soldiers from the Missouri, Illinois, Mississippi River area might have, more commonly, gotten their swords and equipment from a specific manufacturer. As opposed to soldiers that lived in the Northern states or on the East coast. What areas of the country used which manufacturing companies? Or was it all a mix?

 

[KathrynP]

Actually I just took a look, he has more than 1 up for sale!

what a great website! Thank you so much! I may have to get one! Early birthday present to myself!

 

[JOHN42768]

I doubt it was an officers version saber. I am mainly curious if soldiers from the Missouri, Illinois, Mississippi River area might have, more commonly, gotten their swords and equipment from a specific manufacturer. As opposed to soldiers that lived in the Northern states or on the East coast. What areas of the country used which manufacturing companies? Or was it all a mix?

I kind of doubt any particular manufacture would be limited to one area. A few of the major were Ames and Emerson. Most likely a Model 1860. If you want to kill some time here is a list of some dealers to go through to see what is available and cost. http://www.civilwardealers.com/dealers.htm

 

[KathrynP]

I kind of doubt any particular manufacture would be limited to one area. A few of the major were Ames and Emerson. Most likely a Model 1860. If you want to kill some time here is a list of some dealers to go through to see what is available and cost. http://www.civilwardealers.com/dealers.htm

This is great! Thank you so much!

 

[scooter748driver]

Did you find a representative example?

 

[KathrynP]

Did you find a representative example?

I think so, but I still am unsure if he had an 1840 wrist breaker or an 1860 model. He was 45 when he mustered in. So it's possible he had an older model. Even though I haven't found any records of service prior to the civil war.

 

[Sundance]

I'd vote for the 1840 model assuming we're dealing with swords in comparable condition. I believe there are fewer of them out there so perhaps a better investment. Also, more likely that it was used in the Civil War and perhaps even in the Mexican War. Grab one with a scabbard if possible. It really helps the value. Also, also, A maker marked sword would beat out an unmarked one. All IMO.