Cannon Identification

[Story]

I'm concentrating on the "stubby" cannon which may be a carronade. I'm a novice so forgive me but can you explain the use if a tray for the powder and how the cannon would have been detonated. Thanks

For reference, look at this reproduction - https://hernironworks.com/product/us-carronade-cannon-34-scale/

Note the matching elements of style - the below-centerline trunnions on both and the Hern reproduction 'powder tray' not cut in yet.

 

[Neil B]

Fine powder would have been poured into the tray & ignited by slow match.

A quill primer was made of with an actual quill or a paper tube. It was inserted into the touch hole leaving a bit standing proud. Slow match would ignite it.

I'm a cannon novice. Would a carronade with a powder tray firing mechanism be used in the CW? Would the fleur de lis inscription indicate French origin?

 

[Rhea Cole]

I'm a cannon novice. Would a carronade with a powder tray firing mechanism be used in the CW? Would the fleur de lis inscription indicate French origin?

In 1860 it was go with what ya got. The US hadn't fought a war since Mexico in 1846. The first US manufactured artillery patterns date from 1841. A smoothbore six pound cannon & a 12 howitzer served extremely well in Mexico.

Two 1941 model six pounders & a 12 pound howitzer in battery at Stones River National Battlefield.

Outwardly identical to the 1841 cannon, in fact 1/2 of the inventory was rebored & rifled. At the very position the Chicago Board of Trade Battery dropped trails on Dec 31, 1862 is a section of new cast 14 pound rifles.

Ames is the best known manufacturer of bronze rifles.

The magic that exponentially increased range, accuracy & hitting power are these lands & grooves. Same weight, same horses, same crew massive firepower.

This is the business end of a 12 pound howitzer / gun named after Napoleon the 3rd. A single canon replaced the six & 12 pound 1841's. As the weight on the muzzle indicates, three 1841's were melted down to cast two Napoleons. Once again, same resources, exponential increase in firepower & simplistic logistics. Muzzle loading black powder smoothbore artillery had reached its Pinnacle.

If you visit Fort Donelson National Battlefield there are two carronades mounted in the lower water battery. They were 32 pound antiques in 1860. HMS Victory has two 70 pound smashers on the forecastle. Carronades were lighter, required half the crew of a long gun, heavy weight of metal was counter balanced by short inaccurate range. By 1860 carronades were relics of the Napoleonic Wars.

The ignition of the priming charge began with the gunner pouring powder into a tray cast around the touch hole. Wind & water plaid all heck with that. A quill or tube of paper was filled with fine powder. It was inverted into the vent with a 1/2" standing proud of the breech.

On the side of each cheek is a linstock bracket. Linstock is a fancy way of saying a couple of feet of broom handle. Slow match was tied to the linstock with six inches or so of the lit end dangling free.

At the order of 'Fire!' Number three waves his arm in a circle to freshen the glowing match & swipes across the touch hole while staying outside the wheel. It is really something to be so close to the jet screaming up out of the touch hole.
At Stones River, Water's Alabama Battery had been issued with worthless friction primers. They spent the night before the battle making quill primers. We do a program annually to commentate that event. The linstock training secession for new volunteers is always dancing on tiptoes affair.

The vent plug on an Ames model one rifle is for use with a friction primer. Basically, a friction primer is just a short copper tube filled with fine powder stoppered with beeswax. Attached to the upper end is a looped wire coated with strike anywhere match chemicals. Number four bends a knee, the lanyard hooked to the loop stretches & yanks the wire, setting off the fine powder & shooting a jet into the charge.

In this remarkable image, the friction primer has fired, the light of the charge exploding precedes the smoke to the muzzle. The puff of smoke from the wire is to the left of the jet from the vent. Just on top of the jet is the copper tube rocketing upward. Look carefully to the left of the breech & you can see the lanyard wriggling in recoil. Stones River Living Historians, anniversary program, Chicago Board of Trade Battery position 31 Dec 1862.

There was a period where cannon were fired using flintlocks. By 1860 lt was no longer in use.

Hope this short tutorial is useful. Feel free to ask questions. Rhea

All photos by the author at Stones River NB. Feel free to make use of them, just give me a credit.

 

[Belfoured]

In 1860 it was go with what ya got. The US hadn't fought a war since Mexico in 1846. The first US manufactured artillery patterns date from 1841. A smoothbore six pound cannon & a 12 howitzer served extremely well in Mexico.

View attachment 457179
Two 1941 model six pounders & a 12 pound howitzer in battery at Stones River National Battlefield.

View attachment 457181
Outwardly identical to the 1841 cannon, in fact 1/2 of the inventory was rebored & rifled. At the very position the Chicago Board of Trade Battery dropped trails on Dec 31, 1862 is a section of new cast 14 pound rifles.

View attachment 457183

Ames is the best known manufacturer of bronze rifles.

View attachment 457184
The magic that exponentially increased range, accuracy & hitting power are these lands & grooves. Same weight, same horses, same crew massive firepower.

View attachment 457182
This is the business end of a 12 pound howitzer / gun named after Napoleon the 3rd. A single canon replaced the six & 12 pound 1841's. As the weight on the muzzle indicates, three 1841's were melted down to cast two Napoleons. Once again, same resources, exponential increase in firepower & simplistic logistics. Muzzle loading black powder smoothbore artillery had reached its Pinnacle.

If you visit Fort Donelson National Battlefield there are two carronades mounted in the lower water battery. They were 32 pound antiques in 1860. HMS Victory has two 70 pound smashers on the forecastle. Carronades were lighter, required half the crew of a long gun, heavy weight of metal was counter balanced by short inaccurate range. By 1860 carronades were relics of the Napoleonic Wars.

The ignition of the priming charge began with the gunner pouring powder into a tray cast around the touch hole. Wind & water plaid all heck with that. A quill or tube of paper was filled with fine powder. It was inverted into the vent with a 1/2" standing proud of the breech.

View attachment 457190
On the side of each cheek is a linstock bracket. Linstock is a fancy way of saying a couple of feet of broom handle. Slow match was tied to the linstock with six inches or so of the lit end dangling free.

At the order of 'Fire!' Number three waves his arm in a circle to freshen the glowing match & swipes across the touch hole while staying outside the wheel. It is really something to be so close to the jet screaming up out of the touch hole.
At Stones River, Water's Alabama Battery had been issued with worthless friction primers. They spent the night before the battle making quill primers. We do a program annually to commentate that event. The linstock training secession for new volunteers is always dancing on tiptoes affair.

View attachment 457191
The vent plug on an Ames model one rifle is for use with a friction primer. Basically, a friction primer is just a short copper tube filled with fine powder stoppered with beeswax. Attached to the upper end is a looped wire coated with strike anywhere match chemicals. Number four bends a knee, the lanyard hooked to the loop stretches & yanks the wire, setting off the fine powder & shooting a jet into the charge.

View attachment 457189
In this remarkable image, the friction primer has fired, the light of the charge exploding precedes the smoke to the muzzle. The puff of smoke from the wire is to the left of the jet from the vent. Just on top of the jet is the copper tube rocketing upward. Look carefully to the left of the breech & you can see the lanyard wriggling in recoil. Stones River Living Historians, anniversary program, Chicago Board of Trade Battery position 31 Dec 1862.

There was a period where cannon were fired using flintlocks. By 1860 lt was no longer in use.

Hope this short tutorial is useful. Feel free to ask questions. Rhea

All photos by the author at Stones River NB. Feel free to make use of them, just give me a credit.

Linstocks - all we need to add are portfires, slow match, and ladles and we've got the "wrong" century here ...

 

[Rhea Cole]

Linstocks - all we need to add are portfires, slow match, and ladles and we've got the "wrong" century here ...

How do you like the firing photo? I set my iPhone on top of the limber chest & put it on automatic. I have never seen one exactly like it.

 

[Neil B]

For reference, look at this reproduction - https://hernironworks.com/product/us-carronade-cannon-34-scale/

Note the matching elements of style - the below-centerline trunnions on both and the Hern reproduction 'powder tray' not cut in yet.

I think that we have the "stubby" cannon nailed down. From the references and information provided I would say that it is most likely a carronade based on size, configuration and location of the trunnions. The powder tray ignition system is of older design and not used in cannons manufactured near the CW years. The fleur de lis inscription on the top still intrigues me. Thank you for your kind assistance.

 

[Neil B]

Since those guns are around the Civil War Memorial, there's a good chance they'll be mentioned in the local newspaper - probably when that memorial was dedicated.

Who holds the newspaper morgue in Plymouth? Local historical society or library?

I'm working on that angle now. The 109th field artillery is located in Plymouth, PA and according to the local historical society sourced the cannons for installation in the cemetery. There is a record of their acquisition which I'm trying to acquire. It may give more information. Good thought, thanks.

 

[Neil B]

In 1860 it was go with what ya got. The US hadn't fought a war since Mexico in 1846. The first US manufactured artillery patterns date from 1841. A smoothbore six pound cannon & a 12 howitzer served extremely well in Mexico.

View attachment 457179
Two 1941 model six pounders & a 12 pound howitzer in battery at Stones River National Battlefield.

View attachment 457181
Outwardly identical to the 1841 cannon, in fact 1/2 of the inventory was rebored & rifled. At the very position the Chicago Board of Trade Battery dropped trails on Dec 31, 1862 is a section of new cast 14 pound rifles.

View attachment 457183

Ames is the best known manufacturer of bronze rifles.

View attachment 457184
The magic that exponentially increased range, accuracy & hitting power are these lands & grooves. Same weight, same horses, same crew massive firepower.

View attachment 457182
This is the business end of a 12 pound howitzer / gun named after Napoleon the 3rd. A single canon replaced the six & 12 pound 1841's. As the weight on the muzzle indicates, three 1841's were melted down to cast two Napoleons. Once again, same resources, exponential increase in firepower & simplistic logistics. Muzzle loading black powder smoothbore artillery had reached its Pinnacle.

If you visit Fort Donelson National Battlefield there are two carronades mounted in the lower water battery. They were 32 pound antiques in 1860. HMS Victory has two 70 pound smashers on the forecastle. Carronades were lighter, required half the crew of a long gun, heavy weight of metal was counter balanced by short inaccurate range. By 1860 carronades were relics of the Napoleonic Wars.

The ignition of the priming charge began with the gunner pouring powder into a tray cast around the touch hole. Wind & water plaid all heck with that. A quill or tube of paper was filled with fine powder. It was inverted into the vent with a 1/2" standing proud of the breech.

View attachment 457190
On the side of each cheek is a linstock bracket. Linstock is a fancy way of saying a couple of feet of broom handle. Slow match was tied to the linstock with six inches or so of the lit end dangling free.

At the order of 'Fire!' Number three waves his arm in a circle to freshen the glowing match & swipes across the touch hole while staying outside the wheel. It is really something to be so close to the jet screaming up out of the touch hole.
At Stones River, Water's Alabama Battery had been issued with worthless friction primers. They spent the night before the battle making quill primers. We do a program annually to commentate that event. The linstock training secession for new volunteers is always dancing on tiptoes affair.

View attachment 457191
The vent plug on an Ames model one rifle is for use with a friction primer. Basically, a friction primer is just a short copper tube filled with fine powder stoppered with beeswax. Attached to the upper end is a looped wire coated with strike anywhere match chemicals. Number four bends a knee, the lanyard hooked to the loop stretches & yanks the wire, setting off the fine powder & shooting a jet into the charge.

View attachment 457189
In this remarkable image, the friction primer has fired, the light of the charge exploding precedes the smoke to the muzzle. The puff of smoke from the wire is to the left of the jet from the vent. Just on top of the jet is the copper tube rocketing upward. Look carefully to the left of the breech & you can see the lanyard wriggling in recoil. Stones River Living Historians, anniversary program, Chicago Board of Trade Battery position 31 Dec 1862.

There was a period where cannon were fired using flintlocks. By 1860 lt was no longer in use.

Hope this short tutorial is useful. Feel free to ask questions. Rhea

All photos by the author at Stones River NB. Feel free to make use of them, just give me a credit.

We're most Union cannons brass? I recognize that the South had a shortage o brass and therefore used iron. All four of my cannons are iron.

 

[Rhea Cole]

We're most Union cannons brass? I recognize that the South had a shortage o brass and therefore used iron. All four of my cannons are iron.

The guns over my wife's left shoulder are 3" rifles. With the exception of the early war Ames rifled bronze cannon, all the rifled cannon were made of iron. Parrott rifles were cast iron & had a distinctive pig in a blanket reenforcing band around the breech. 3" ordinance rifles, also called Rodman's, have an elegant modern looking shape. They were made of a proto-steel that made them immensely strong.

Larger caliber cannon like this 30 pound Parrott being demoed at FT Pulaski were iron.

The very large guns run out thorough the gun ports were all made of iron.

​

To directly answer the question, apart from 12 pound Napoleons, all new Union cannon were all made of iron after 1862. Even this elegantly shaped Ames model 2 rifle could not compete with the 3" ordinance rife.

 

[Neil B]

The next cannon that I'd like to ID is iron with no visible markings. They may be there but hidden under many layers of well meaning volunteer paint. It is very plain but I don't have any measurements. The barrel is not rifled

 

[cannonmn]

Not carronade, which lacks trunnions. Guarantee it is an antique cannon, for merchant ships, known as "insurance gun." No connection to Civil War, it was what they could find to decorate the monument.