Bowie knife

[Richard E. Schenk]

Thanks guys. The guys had some good stuff. I got a couple nice rifles from the collection; a nice 1855 Harpers Ferry rifle dated 1860 that has the probable Rebels grip worn into the wood and stained with greasy hands and powder, it oozes character. A couple other nice edged pieces too

The scabbard shown with the M1832 Foot Artillery sword is incorrect. Ames used pins, not staples, to affix the brass mounts to the leather body of the scabbard. It may be a scabbard from a French version of this sword - they usually used staples. In any event, the top mount seems to be put on backwards - the frog knob is supposed to be on the obverse side of the scabbard, not the back side with the stitching.

 

[James N.]

Gents, A old collection was sold off recently and I picked up some of his better CW relics. Does this look like a good find?
Best regards, Rob

Not to my eye - it looks like another of the very many fakes and impositions dreamed up in the 1950's through the end of the twentieth century and probably nearer the end of that time frame than the beginning. It looks too artificially aged to suit me and the "TEXAS" marking like the equally bogus "CSA" ones found on many fakes of that period. The grip also looks suspicious, like nothing I've seen on recognized examples and reminds me of a fake Bowie knife (as seen in the IMAX Alamo - The Price of Freedom) made for film purposes: the grip on that one was made from a carrier for a toilet paper roll!

Welcome to the forums!

 

[James N.]

Thanks guys. The guys had some good stuff. I got a couple nice rifles from the collection; a nice 1855 Harpers Ferry rifle dated 1860 that has the probable Rebels grip worn into the wood and stained with greasy hands and powder, it oozes character. A couple other nice edged pieces too

I'd like to see a good, sharp, in-focus shot of the blade markings on the foot artillery sword and bayonet.

 

[James N.]

Here's the 1855, dated 1860. Check out the worn in hand placement from Greasy palms. Shot a ton by a Reb, must have been a good shooter for him.

Yes - in really rough condition, but unquestionably an authentic piece; I like it a lot.

 

[James N.]

The scabbard shown with the M1832 Foot Artillery sword is incorrect. Ames used pins, not staples, to affix the brass mounts to the leather body of the scabbard. It may be a scabbard from a French version of this sword - they usually used staples. In any event, the top mount seems to be put on backwards - the frog knob is supposed to be on the obverse side of the scabbard, not the back side with the stitching.

That's one reason I'd like to look at the markings on the sword itself - the Chinese have made some really excellent fakes - oops, I mean reproductions! - of these.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

I knew I had seen that "Bowie Knife" somewhere! The exact knife, minus the "Texas" enhancement is available from Atlanta Cutlery for $79.95!
J.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Had to post the grand finale knife for good ole' Jobe. This one made {and marked} in Petersburg, Va. 1861. The same company also made pike blades, and repaired locomotives. Fairly well diversified, I'd say. We are on the Bowie Knife subject after all.

 

[byron ed]

The scabbard shown with the M1832 Foot Artillery sword is incorrect. Ames used pins, not staples, to affix the brass mounts to the leather body of the scabbard.

Not always.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

A thank you to Lanyardpuller for sharing one of the rarest CS Bowie knives we could see!
J.

 

[James N.]

Not always.

View attachment 178197

View attachment 178195

I suspect the scabbards were sub-contracted out to other manufacturer(s); oddly enough, the brass hilts on the earliest of these also were! Today we associate the Ames Mfg. Co. with production of brass and bronze items up to the size of twelve-pounder cannon, but in 1832 when the first of these were made, the hilts were stamped on the underside with the name (Huse (?) or something like it) of the sub-contractor. Soon, however, Nathan P. Ames was able to produce brass and bronze at his own foundry.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[tokashikibop]

Thanks for the welcomes and the feedback, lots of back and forth, real then fake. You gotta love collecting militaria!! My main focus has been Japanese swords the last 10 years but do branch out a bit here and there. Here are more of the Ames swords pictures as requested.

From the same collection, Yesterday I bought a Lorenz (bad shape) and what I believe to be a incredible 1853 Enfield Artillery Carbine Type 3 in very nice condition. Doing a bit of research on it now and first stop was CivilWarTalk. I'll post some photos when I get some time to take some. I do have a email list that I contact first when I post something for sale. You can drop me a email and I will add you on it if anyone is interested.
[email protected]

Best regards, Bob

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/p-1853-artillery-carbine.127205/

 

[Ralph Heinz]

For your half stock Golcher rifle you can find ramrods from places like Track of the Wolf (they have a catalog on line). You'll need to check the diameter of the thimbles before ordering one and you'll probably have to cut the wooden rod to the proper length. This is a very simple thing to do to complete your rifle.

 

[byron ed]

1864-stamped "United States" Ames Artillery Sword? Was this particular one a private purchase from Ames then? It's been insisted here that the last gov't contract delivery was for 300 in 1863. (Of course it's also insisted that the sword was barely issued or used at all in the CW -- not even the Southern models, where manufacturing resources were precious. The claim goes that so many turn up as artifacts only because they were surplused post war).

 

[James N.]

1864-stamped "United States" Ames Artillery Sword? Was this particular one a private purchase from Ames then? It's been insisted here that the last gov't contract delivery was for 300 in 1863. (Of course it's also insisted that the sword was barely issued or used at all in the CW -- not even the Southern models, where manufacturing resources were precious. The claim goes that so many turn up as artifacts only because they were surplused post war).

This one looks fine to me, but it allows me to comment on the Chinese fakes I've seen - On originals, the various stampings - here united states - 1834 (although it's more common to have U.S., the inspector's initials, and the date) and on the opposite side Ames Manufacturing Co. and Springfield - were all put on separately and therefore don't usually line up with each other and are stamped in varying depths. However, on the fakes I've noticed perfect alignment and uniform depth because unlike the originals they're stamped by a single die all at the same time! This is an important consideration because the leather scabbards, although made correctly, are more or less obvious replicas due to their too-new condition and lack of genuine age, but the swords once divorced from them can be quite convincing!

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Have a closer look at the photos of the Ames. fellers...It's dated "1834" not '64.

 

[byron ed]

Have a closer look at the photos of the Ames. fellers...It's dated "1834" not '64.

Thanks, it is 1834.

 

[Glen_C]

There were simply many more French 1816 scabbards floating around, with staples, than Ames ever manufactured of the 1832 foot artillery swords. While Ames did farm out the the hilt castings for the first few years, they never delivered scabbards with staples. The one pictured above in this thread showing both rivet holes in the throat and a staple in the toe is an obvious marriage and collectors are wont to do just about anything to complete a kit. It is not uncommon to find genuine Ames swords in French 1816 scabbards. It is a simple matter of numbers.

My 1833 Ames artillery sword is marked Huse on the blade side of the guard, while some of the Huse marked swords are stamped on the face of the guard.

Cheers

GC

Came to me kind of crusty.

 

[Glen_C]

In addendum, the Huse castings were discontinued not just as a source but also that Ames had improved the castings (internally/structurally).

Cheers

GC

 

[James N.]

... Today we associate the Ames Mfg. Co. with production of brass and bronze items up to the size of twelve-pounder cannon, but in 1832 when the first of these were made, the hilts were stamped on the underside with the name (Huse (?) or something like it) of the sub-contractor...

... My 1833 Ames artillery sword is marked Huse on the blade side of the guard, while some of the Huse marked swords are stamped on the face of the guard.

D*mn, I'm good! I hadn't actually seen one marked like this in years!