Blockade Runner IVANHOE


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archieclement

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#2
Always seems puzzling to me when they point out retrieving anything from it is illegal as its a non renewable resource.....I agree its non renewable and slowly deteriorating into nothing... so not sure why the state isn't salvaging it and if not going to due to lack of resources or whatever, forbidding anyone else from saving anything...…. Lets just ensure the non renewable resource is completely wasted, seems the policy at times…...
 

Vicksburger

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#4
Article is undated, but saw this today on the Book of Face... very exciting stuff, the wreck of the blockade runner Ivanhoe uncovered off of Fort Morgan, AL. Looks to be in pretty good condition too!

https://www.al.com/news/2018/11/civil-war-blockade-runner-uncovered-in-fort-morgan-surf.html
That does look interesting. It reminds me in looks of the famous Star of the West that ended up scuttled by the Confederates in the Tallahatchie River near Greenwood, Mississippi. That would be fascinating to look at!
 

WJC

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#6
Interesting article- with a link to Scottish shipbuilding information that I hadn't seen before. Thanks for sharing!
 

archieclement

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#7
Wonder if it's thought these old ships would crumble if attempts were made to raise them? Have a feeling if they did allow divers to scavenge, we'd see the Ivanoe on Ebay, piece by piece. Still, agree a preservation effort would be wonderful.

One from a NY paper,
View attachment 212274

And Jackson, Mississippi

View attachment 212273
Not saying a Professional evacuation isn't preferable.....just that amateur preservation would still be better then no preservation at all....

Pieces very well may be on ebay or in private homes initially. But I have frequented a lot of small county and historical society museums and from what I can tell it appears a lot of the exhibits in fact came from amateur preservation. Say Joe Blow dives and pulls up the ships bell, he may cherish it at his home or sell it on ebay for someone to else cherish. But often 10-30 years later when Joe Blow dies, families have donated the items to local museums.

Have seen some phenomenal collections of indian artifacts that were collected by "amateur" archeologists and donated
 
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USS ALASKA

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#8
I wonder how much is left other than a possibly bare hull? After she grounded, the Confederates stripped her to include much of her machinery and cargo, then a Union raiding party burned her to the water line.
97

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USS ALASKA
 
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#9
Always seems puzzling to me when they point out retrieving anything from it is illegal as its a non renewable resource.....I agree its non renewable and slowly deteriorating into nothing... so not sure why the state isn't salvaging it and if not going to due to lack of resources or whatever, forbidding anyone else from saving anything...…. Lets just ensure the non renewable resource is completely wasted, seems the policy at times…...
Proper archaeological excavation of a wreck like this is extremely expensive. The Golden Rule of archaeology is always, always, to do what's best for the site. In many cases, it's better to leave a site undisturbed in a (relatively) stable state, than to do a half-assed job of "recovery." Every case is different, of course, and I'm sure the Alabama Historical Commission is looking at every avenue on this one.

Here is a brief summary of Alabama's laws regarding historic wrecks:

https://www.nps.gov/archeology/sites/statesubmerged/alabama.htm
 
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#10
I wonder how much is left other than a possibly bare hull? After she grounded, the Confederates stripped her to include much of her machinery and cargo, then a Union raiding party burned her to the water line.
Similar situation to Denbigh and Will o' the Wisp here. Still, there is likely a good bit of the hull and its construction to document.
 

archieclement

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#11
I wonder how much is left other than a possibly bare hull? After she grounded, the Confederates stripped her to include much of her machinery and cargo, then a Union raiding party burned her to the water line.
97

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
thata what's puzzling to me, its not some treasure ship worth 50 million where the state should be worried about getting its x% of...….what's left is probably small everyday items of little value at the time that would have some value today. Still think 1% recovered by amateurs "half-assed" is better then 0% recovered by a bureaucracy that just sits on their hands and does nothing...….
 
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#12
thata what's puzzling to me, its not some treasure ship worth 50 million where the state should be worried about getting its x% of...….what's left is probably small everyday items of little value at the time that would have some value today. Still think 1% recovered by amateurs "half-assed" is better then 0% recovered by a bureaucracy that just sits on their hands and does nothing...….
The wreck of Ivanhoe is property of the State of Alabama under state law. Similar situation in Texas. It's not open to commercial salvage.
 

archieclement

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#13
The wreck of Ivanhoe is property of the State of Alabama under state law. Similar situation in Texas. It's not open to commercial salvage.
yes I haven't said it wasn't illegal or the state doesn't claim it...…..what I have said is, its rather silly in my opinion to watch it rust away, as it is a non renewable resource and recover nothing from it...…… You may think its preferential for items to be lost for all time, your certainly entitled to that view, I just don't share it.
 
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JPK Huson 1863

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#17
Not saying a Professional evacuation isn't preferable.....just that amateur preservation would still be better then no preservation at all....

Goodness yes- genuinely wasn't arguing that point at all, better to have it somewhere than falling to bits and finally vanishing. Also did not occur to me that if something did show up on Ebay, be sure the buyer would be someone who cherishes history. I get in trouble for sometimes discounting the value of professionals, really don't mean to. It's just that from what I've seen on CWT since 2012, ' amateurs ' can be indistinguishable from someone with a degree.

Not quite off thread- this relic thing can be puzzling. Once had a guide at Gettysburg ( he was there just to come along, not leading a tour ) be convinced I was relic hunting. Dropped a pen in the grass, looked down, that's it, mostly thinking about leaving bits of plastic on the battlefield, not too worried about losing a pen. He seemed upset, as in really upset, couldn't figure out why until someone said ' No relic hunting '.

Had to abandon pen but thought, gee whiz. If someone found a button or something perishable, wouldn't it be better preserved somewhere, in a collection someone prized as History, than eventually gone? Not me, I don't know enough to ' collect ', but there are people who would ensure it was preserved.
 

archieclement

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#19
Goodness yes- genuinely wasn't arguing that point at all, better to have it somewhere than falling to bits and finally vanishing. Also did not occur to me that if something did show up on Ebay, be sure the buyer would be someone who cherishes history. I get in trouble for sometimes discounting the value of professionals, really don't mean to. It's just that from what I've seen on CWT since 2012, ' amateurs ' can be indistinguishable from someone with a degree.

Not quite off thread- this relic thing can be puzzling. Once had a guide at Gettysburg ( he was there just to come along, not leading a tour ) be convinced I was relic hunting. Dropped a pen in the grass, looked down, that's it, mostly thinking about leaving bits of plastic on the battlefield, not too worried about losing a pen. He seemed upset, as in really upset, couldn't figure out why until someone said ' No relic hunting '.

Had to abandon pen but thought, gee whiz. If someone found a button or something perishable, wouldn't it be better preserved somewhere, in a collection someone prized as History, than eventually gone? Not me, I don't know enough to ' collect ', but there are people who would ensure it was preserved.
And I didn't mean to discount the value of professionals either, or mean to suggest they wouldn't be preferential or the first choice.

Just get frustrated with the lack of any preservation at times, and meant if decide can't afford to do it professionally......amateur would seem better then none, if it least salvaged something.
 



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