Benjamin Butler

[Drew]

I've read up. You need to revisit the thread. I was talking about why Banks was more popular than Butler in New Orleans. What others speculate as to why Butler did what he did is irrelevant to that.

I'm not sure what you mean. Banks did not line his own pockets (this is noticeable to occupied peoples in every conflict in every part of the world) and he did not issue the kinds of orders against local women that Butler did.

Banks was no Herculean General, but a much better role model than his predecessor. Oh, he also didn't take foolish action against foreigners whose embassies and consulates were very keen on goings-on in the 1860's.

Butler did that. Maybe that's why Honest Abe removed him?

 

[cash]

I'm not sure what you mean. Banks did not line his own pockets (this is noticeable to occupied peoples in every conflict in every part of the world) and he did not issue the kinds of orders against local women that Butler did.

Banks was no Herculean General, but a much better role model than his predecessor. Oh, he also didn't take foolish action against foreigners whose embassies and consulates were very keen on goings-on in the 1860's.

Butler did that. Maybe that's why Honest Abe removed him?

Go back and review the post of yours to which I responded and then my post. You seem to have lost the train of thought.

 

[Drew]

Go back and review the post of yours to which I responded and then my post. You seem to have lost the train of thought.

With due respect, I think you've lost yours.

 

[Drew]

Banks also came in with a mandate to soothe ruffled feathers, whereas Butler seems to have enjoyed ruffling them. I think that had more to do with it.

The mandate would have been Mr. Lincoln's. Many of Butler's ruffled feathers were foreign, people who had a voice in Washington. Perhaps in Richmond, as well. Complicated stuff, this.

 

[cash]

With due respect, I think you've lost yours.

Okay, let's go back to basics.

Your post: "Banks, who replaced him, was never vilified by locals the way Butler was. The former also didn't play Butler's money games, profiting from trade with the enemy. That may have had something to do with it."

My response: "Banks didn't come up with the idea of refusing to return fugitive slaves because they were 'contraband of war,' didn't point out that the fugitive slave clause wouldn't apply to a foreign nation, which the confederacy had claimed to be, and didn't publish the 'Women's Order.' That probably had a lot to do with it."

As anyone can see, any speculation as to why Butler did what he did with fugitive slaves is irrelevant because it was his actual actions that counted.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

The mandate would have been Mr. Lincoln's.

That was implied.

 

[18thVirginia]

Yeah. I just get the mental image of Butler carefully researching the law code to find out who he could poke in the eye with relative impunity, and then taking great satisfaction from the eyepokes. XD

(As far as the corruption on the side, it's never been firmly established that Butler had anything to do with it. This is not to say that he did not have anything to do with it, as he was quite good at finding loopholes. The obvious fact that his own brother was firmly enmeshed in the corruption business makes it rather likely that Butler's hands were clean only in a strict-letter-of-the-law sense, rather than the spirit-of-the-law...)

ETA: I've related this anecdote before, but it bears repeating in this connection... When Farragut's force collected off New Orleans preparatory to the April 1862 attack, they were suffering from a bit of a coal shortage (this was not unusual for the West Gulf Blockading Squadron, at the very tail end of a long supply line to the North). Butler heard of it and offered Farragut a bunch of coal that Butler had used as ballast in his troop transports instead of the more-usual stone or sand. Butler had figured that the price of coal would go up during the duration of the New Orleans expedition, and had done a bit of speculative investment on the assumption that he could resell the coal upon return to Northern ports at a bit of a profit. He of course rationalized this as a way of defraying part of the cost of the expedition on the part of the government, but I don't doubt he would have taken a (perfectly legal) agent's fee along the way.

However, Butler appeared ready to part with it in the interests of furthering the success of the expedition (no doubt he had a way in mind to recoup his losses). Farragut, bemused by this, asked if the direct transfer from Army to Navy wasn't against regulations, to which Butler responded that he never read the regulations and moreover would never do so, so he'd never know if it was against regulations or not. (And that's the part of this funny story I've always found most difficult to swallow. I'd bet good money that Butler actually had the regulations committed to memory and knew exactly what he could get away with...)

Wouldn't any decent lawyer take great satisfaction in finding some place in the law that would benefit him over his opponent?

While Butler likely knew the regulations, wouldn't he have also known that ignorance of the law is no excuse?

 

[yankee hoorah]

LOL! Good ol' Spoons Butler. Never liked by anyone North or South it seems!

Unless the person was black

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Wouldn't any decent lawyer take great satisfaction in finding some place in the law that would benefit him over his opponent?

Oh, it's all fair game if you're playing by the rules. But it is a reminder that law and justice are not always perfectly synonymous.

While Butler likely knew the regulations, wouldn't he have also known that ignorance of the law is no excuse?

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Butler may have had a bit of the P.T. Barnum in him, methinks.

 

[yankee hoorah]

Personally, I believe Benjamin Butler was not that bad of a guy. He created the idea of Contraband of war. Rather than returning runaways to the Confederacy he gave them a shot at making something of themselves. He also really believed in african americans in combat roles, leading them in several assaults before General Terry took command of the AoJ. From an african american perspective he was a pretty good fella but from almost anyone else's point of view... Well... You already know.

 

[John Hartwell]

LOL! Good ol' Spoons Butler. Never liked by anyone North or South it seems!

Expired Image Removed

These chamber pots are interesting. You see pictures of them everywhere, in several different patterns, all apparently copied from well-known photographs or prints -- one gets the impression that they were de rigueur in every southern household. I've seen two examples in museums, both marked "Reproduction" (as is the pictured one from the ACW museum in New Orleans). One has to ask, whether actual, documented period examples exist? I heard some years ago that there is only one genuine one. That the image is so ubiquitous is probably just another example of "It puts down Butler, so it let's repeat it ad nauseam" stereotyping.

 

[18thVirginia]

Oh, it's all fair game if you're playing by the rules. But it is a reminder that law and justice are not always perfectly synonymous.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Butler may have had a bit of the P.T. Barnum in him, methinks.

An old judge asked my husband, a young lawyer at the time, if he wanted justice for his client. He answered, "Yes, Your Honor." The old jurist said, "No, son, you want mercy for your client, justice is for your enemies."