Batty "Peace Flask" questions

[Cannonman1]

I recently picked up a couple original Batty Peace flasks .. One is dated 1850 and the other is a Springfield stamped flask dated 1858 which is, I believe, the last year they made them.
Question is.. I have seen it mentioned that they were issued with the Harpers Ferry 1841 " Mississippi" rifle.. and as an accessory to the Colt Dragoon pistol. Were they really used as an accessory to the Dragoon?

Thanks in advance
Bill

 

[cannonjockey]

I have seen the Mississippi's pictured with what was called the M1839 rifleman's pouch which had a white buff shoulder strap split to carry both a pouch and a Batty Peace flask. In fact, I have an original M1841 Mississippi in .54 cal shooting condition and I found a reproduction of said rifleman's pouch at S & S firearms so I ordered one to go with my rifle. I mated it up with a repro peace flask I've had for 30 years or more.

Here's a little Mexican American war layout that I put together. The 1st Mississippi volunteer regiment led by Jefferson Davis in the Mexican-American war was issued wide-brimmed straw hats and since the M1841s were not initially designed to mount a bayonet, the Mississippians were also issued large Bowie knives. Jefferson's regiment was instrumental in turning the tide of the battle of Beuna Vista and that's how the M1841 earned its "Mississippi" sobriquet. My repro Peace flask fixed spout throws 60 grains of powder which is fine for a rifle but is a bit much for a Dragoon pistol. I think the original Batty flask had an adjustable spout so it could probably be made to work for the pistol.

However, as far as the early Colt Dragoons, Colt issued their own large Dragoon-sized flasks marked "Colts Patent" on a banner under a stand of arms image. These also had an adjustable spout that was plunger operated to make loading the chambers of a cylinder a lot faster. The flask also had a tubular cavity with a lid on it to hold a supply of .44 cal balls.

I would think that the Colt-supplied Dragoon flasks were more likely to be used with the Dragoons although they are almost as large as the Batty. I would still imagine that for any contract Sam Colt got with the US military he would make sure that they also included as many accouterments he could get them to purchase. Still, the original Dragoon flasks are even rarer than the Dragoon pistols so they go for a lot of money when found in decent condition. Here's one that sold in a Morphy's auction back in 2009 for $6900

Cheers

 

[Cannonman1]

Nice collection by the way.. That Bowie is amazing !!
I too, got one of S & S 's pouches and attached a reproduction Peace flask to it last year. I picked up a Harpers ferry 3rd or 4th variation with the long range rear sight and saber bayonet attachment dated 1850 so it likely saw some prewar service and then later on. Thanks for your time in making such a detailed reply as it really clarifies things.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Other makers made flasks in the "Batty" design, the largest supplier being N.P. Ames.

Riling's The Power Flask Book goes into great detail of the manufacture and distribution, but the photos (black & white, late 1960s) are not at all helpful.

A Batty made "Peace" flask will have an oval of stars, while other makers used a circle. The "Eagle" on a Batty looks to the right, on other makers it looks left. The photos are of a rifleman's' pouch and an Ames "1838 flask" in a modified Batty design.

Ball bag and flask: "N. P. Ames", "1838": circle of stars, eagle looking right.

Close up of the flask. 26 stars in 1837, 27 stars in 1838 {Michigan joined the Union). Dingee made the leather portions.

An 1855 riflemans' rig for comparison;

 

[cannonjockey]

Nice collection by the way.. That Bowie is amazing !!
I too, got one of S & S 's pouches and attached a reproduction Peace flask to it last year. I picked up a Harpers ferry 3rd or 4th variation with the long range rear sight and saber bayonet attachment dated 1850 so it likely saw some prewar service and then later on. Thanks for your time in making such a detailed reply as it really clarifies things.

Thanks, the Bowie is a copy of the infamous Joseph Musso Bowie by Imperial Arms. I have another that's even larger. My m1841 was made by Robbins & Lawrence with a lock date of 1848. At that late date, it probably would not have seen service in Mexico but it somehow escaped being reworked to utilize the new .58 cal Minies adopted in 1855--plus never being modded to accept a bayonet. I won it last year in an auction out of North Carolina. While the auction house claimed that it came out of the estate of an old South Carolina family, they would not give me any more details than that. I can only speculate that it only possibly saw service for the south during the ACW.

Other makers made flasks in the "Batty" design, the largest supplier being N.P. Ames.

Riling's The Power Flask Book goes into great detail of the manufacture and distribution, but the photos (black & white, late 1960s) are not at all helpful.

A Batty made "Peace" flask will have an oval of stars, while other makers used a circle. The "Eagle" on a Batty looks to the right, on other makers it looks left. The photos are of a rifleman's' pouch and an Ames "1838 flask" in a modified Batty design.

Nice collection and thanks for the additional info and pictures. I have an old musty copy of the Riling book and was aware of other makers of the Peace flask pattern but in an effort to keep my post from being any longer, I just didn't address that aspect.





Cheers