Awful forage cap

[Ralph Heinz]

The forage cap that Package 4 discussed on a popular dealer's web site sold for $715 yesterday. In review, the only thing original on it was the bill and chin strap. The awful fluffy blue wool top, lining, and sweatband (which probably came from a modern fedora complete with the contemporary ink stamped name of the hat maker) should have set off alarms in everyone who looked at that dealer's web site. That dealer does get a lot of very good items but this was not one of them. I have bought a couple of excellent original items from him.

The lesson in all this is BUY BOOKS - lots of them- and study them. Go to Civil War shows and museums and look at original items and talk with knowledgeable collectors who'll be glad to tell you what you need to know. Also make "favorites" on your computer of reputable dealer's web sites and visit them frequently to see original items and what they sell for. I do this nearly every day. Remember that small time local auctions are often the dumping ground for repro and fake items.

Print out the "primer" on these caps that Ray went to so much trouble to post on this forum and keep a folder of things like this to refer to before you bid on something that may be questionable.

There is no excuse for a number of people bidding that piece of junk up to $715. A fool and his money are soon parted.

It reminds me of something said by P. T. Barnum "You can fool some of the people all of the time."

 

[DixieRifles]

The awful fluffy blue wool top, lining, and sweatband (which probably came from a modern fedora complete with the contemporary ink stamped name of the hat maker)

I used to browse eBay in the WW2 Italian militaria. I often saw what appears to be a fedora turned into an alpini cap.
Luckily, I obtained my alpini cap directly from an Italian collector.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Thanks Ralph,
I share your opinion and "Pity the Fool" when it comes time to sell that cap.

I've accumulated 8 large bookcases of reference books, and notes. You can't have enough information in this game of sorting the wheat from the chaff. To be considered for membership in the ASAC, not only your collection but your reference library must be visited/reviewed by 4 members.
Note my tag line...

 

[Ralph Heinz]

I'd urge newer collectors to go to Army of Tennessee web site. Just Goggle it and you'll find a link to it. Then click on New Items. The very first item that comes up was just posted today and it's a Federal issue forage cap complete with the maker's label. It's a great example and is priced at $3495. This gives you some idea -- not that you are ready to spend that kind of money -- but you can then see that whomever bid that junk cap on Ebay up to $715 would have done better to have spent their $715 at Toys Are Us or for Easter Peeps.

Incidentally, three of my best friends are members of the American Society of Arms Collectors and my wife and I were guests of one of them a couple years ago at their meeting at Sturbridge, MA. The member's displays were phenomenal and a highlight I still think back on. It was better than going to a dozen gun shows.

 

[mofederal]

http://www.armyoftennesseerelics.com/

A great site, which is very interesting. I love the dug Viking artifacts. Plenty of fakers out there, always ready to cheat a person for any historical era.

 

[1867crete]

Looks like a great site thanks! eBay has a purpose it serves that said buyer be ware....But unless I'm percent sure, I don't pay more then a reproduction would cost. And remember IF ITS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE... y'all know the rest.......

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Ralph and I touched briefly on the ASAC {American Society of Arms Collectors}.
Here's a link to the resources which are on line going back to 1955. These include all of the articles, and presentations made by members, and the index makes for quick searches for particular information. The most recent articles are not published, and some of the original research has certainly been updated as more and more documents and examples of arms have become available.

http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/resources/articles/

 

[Package4]

The forage cap that Package 4 discussed on a popular dealer's web site sold for $715 yesterday. In review, the only thing original on it was the bill and chin strap. The awful fluffy blue wool top, lining, and sweatband (which probably came from a modern fedora complete with the contemporary ink stamped name of the hat maker) should have set off alarms in everyone who looked at that dealer's web site. That dealer does get a lot of very good items but this was not one of them. I have bought a couple of excellent original items from him.

The lesson in all this is BUY BOOKS - lots of them- and study them. Go to Civil War shows and museums and look at original items and talk with knowledgeable collectors who'll be glad to tell you what you need to know. Also make "favorites" on your computer of reputable dealer's web sites and visit them frequently to see original items and what they sell for. I do this nearly every day. Remember that small time local auctions are often the dumping ground for repro and fake items.

Print out the "primer" on these caps that Ray went to so much trouble to post on this forum and keep a folder of things like this to refer to before you bid on something that may be questionable.

There is no excuse for a number of people bidding that piece of junk up to $715. A fool and his money are soon parted.

It reminds me of something said by P. T. Barnum "You can fool some of the people all of the time."

Ralph is correct, this particular seller has very good material, though he is not a cloth guy and went with the description as it was sold to him. Ralph's advice is spot on.

Earlier today someone sent me a picture of a cap on EBay and said that it passed all of the criteria on my primer, keep in mind that there are very excellent recreators for the reenacting market. When these individuals put their mind to it they can put out unbelievable recreations. Thank goodness that they are in a commercial market and expedience makes $$ so there are usually some tell tale aspects that are not recreated.

A very good forage cap copy that has been used for 10 years by a reenactor can fool many. The cap in question, in my mind was a very good, to excellent copy, but still did not have the look of an original. I would venture that it was made by either Joel Bohy or William Wickham:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTHENTIC-...525318?hash=item2aa991b646:g:XJ0AAOSwirFbAI3-

The material is questionable and the thread for the buckram attachment has not oxidized. The sweatband is way too pristine and the liner just doesn't have that polished cotton look.

This is a great piece for the reenactment community, but I do not believe it could be proven to be of period date.

 

[Keiri]

I don't get why some people wear original caps and kepis while reenacting. I'd feel terrible if I damaged the item, got it dirty or sweaty. I was a little horrified when I learned people buy these hats for that purpose. Just use a replica and keep the historical items safe.

 

[Package4]

Here we go again, eBay has a coat on there for $5,000 and the seller does not make a claim other than it is an original civil war military coat. He inherited it...…..please, please make sure not to believe stories, just documented proof. The jacket looks like the kind that Grand Illusions made 20+ years ago and if you look closely, it appears as if someone took a torch to the wool, reenactors will do this to get rid of the pilling. The torch seems to have melted some of the thread, giving it a glossy look, particularly around the button holes:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/original-c...227642?hash=item5b489c503a:g:f-EAAOSwh2FbGVpO

Now that I look at it again I see that the coat was purposely burned to age it, could have been from a reenactor who wanted to age prematurely...…...the thread is still melted.

 

[Keiri]

Is there any way you can report such things?