Austrian M1854 'jaegerstutzen'

[CSAagain]

Hi there..new guy here! Thought I'd start off with a rifle I recently acquired. Its an Austrian M1854 'jaegerstutzen'.
I know the Confederacy employed a good many Austrian 'Lorenz' muskets, but I was wondering about the jaeger rifles. This example was made in 1860, one year before the WoNA started. Two things stand out about it. 1, the barrel is Liege marked, and appears to have been smoothbored, and 2, there is a unit marking on the buttplate (IX L.V.D.) I initially thought this was an Austrian unit marking, but I've started wondering if it is Italian, due to the Roman numerals.
It is also my understanding that these 'carbines' were without provisions for ramrods while in Austrian use, but were added once they reached America.
Glad to be here, looking forward to hearing from everyone.

 

[zburkett]

Welcome, I can't help you with any info on your gun but I really like it. Congratulations on adding it to your collection.

 

[WJC]

Welcome and congratulations on your acquisition! Enjoy!

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Mr. Don Dixon can provide much more information than I can on this arm. From what I see it is a Jagerstutzen that has gone through both the cartridge conversion and the Belgian modifications to make it a muzzle loading arm once again for the African trade.
J.

 

[CSAagain]

Thought of that, took it apart today, all Austrian marks on bottom of barrel, and all numbers match throughout.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I'm not the most knowledgeable on Austrian guns, but I do recognize something about that gun. Its a Belgian rework of sorts of a Austrian Wanzl conversion, (think of it as Austria's version of the US Trapdoor conversion), that's been turned back into a muzzle loader with a new barrel and, I assume, the addition of the ramrod. The re-worked Wanzl converted hammer and elg proof on the barrel gives it away along with a few smaller details, like the absence of rifling. So yeah, not an ACW gun I'm afraid.

But that's not to bash your acquisition, I'd have grabbed it myself in your shoes!
Welcome to CWT.

 

[Don Dixon]

Your weapon was converted from Muster 1854 cap lock to Muster 1854/67 Wanzl breachloader. After it was sold out of service it was reconverted to percussion in Liege and bored smooth for sale in the African "gas pipe" trade.

Although it has a Liege proof mark you should be very cautious about shooting it. In the conversions, the Wanzl breach section was removed and a purpose made percussion beach section was added. Some were threaded and screwed into the barrel. Others were welded onto the barrel. The later conversions are potential bombs. Just because it passed Belgian proof 100 or more years ago doesn't mean it's safe. IF IT IS THE LATTER TYPE IT IS TOTALLY UNSAFE TO SHOOT.

The only value in these guns is the salvage value of the parts.

The mark on the buttplate is Austrian.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[tbuckley]

Welcome from eastern Ohio.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Welcome from WNY

 

[zburkett]

I have to disagree with Mr. Dixon, it is a fascinating piece with an interesting history. It also looks good. I find that just having an interesting gun over my fireplace leads to opportunities to educate nonshooters about guns and their history and those not interested in history to develop an interest.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Zburkett, if you would indulge me please, what part of Don Dixon's statement are you disagreeing with?
J.

 

[CSAagain]

I believe he meant it has worth as something educational and historical.
I've heard of these going to Africa. I actually find that pretty interesting in itself. Who would have used these over there?

 

[JOHN42768]

WElcome, enjoy. Interesting piece

 

[James N.]

Welcome to the forums from the host of the Stonewall Jackson Forum and another firearms enthusiast!

 

[zburkett]

Zburkett, if you would indulge me please, what part of Don Dixon's statement are you disagreeing with?
J.

"The only value of these guns is the salvage value of the parts." I think it is an interesting gun with value of its own.

 

[Don Dixon]

I've heard of these going to Africa. I actually find that pretty interesting in itself. Who would have used these over there?

The colonial powers restricted the natives to arms one or two generations behind their white and native colonial troops. One sees a number of Muster 1854 Type I and II System Lorenz rifles converted to flintlock in Liege and sold in Africa, for example.

These are not Civil War or Austrian military guns anymore, and I know of no collector interest in African trade guns. Additionally, many of them are downright unsafe to shoot. To advertise them as Civil War or Austrian military as some vendors do is fraud.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[zburkett]

I agree with that.

 

[Story]

Hi there..new guy here! Thought I'd start off with a rifle I recently acquired. Its an Austrian M1854 'jaegerstutzen'.
1, the barrel is Liege marked, and appears to have been smoothbored,

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