Assessing Lee's Division Commanders

[Wizard of Cozz]

Ewell agrees to attack but requests support from hill , Anderson's division has been placed on Herr ridge 5 brigades , Hills opinion is his men are to taxed from the days fight and need rest lee is concerned about the need for a reserve, there are also reports coming in of a possible threat on the left flank of the confederate army . A strong attack using the 2 divisions could well have been decisive ( or parts of ) but lees mind was under duress due to the lack of immediate intelligence as to the whereabouts of the rest of the union army . ...Stuart..

I 100% agree with you. I have a whole alternate history up on what if Grumble Jones arrives and does the job Robertson was supposed to do. Jones having veteran cavalry and intelligence for Lee makes Lee much more aggressive in using Anderson on day 1.

I'm on vacation eith my wife. I'll find quote when I get back in Sears Gettysburg book,but after Lee meets with Ewell, Rodes, and Early, he makes a decision to pull 2md corps back around west. Ewell orders Johnson to move on Culps Hill and rides to Lee to tell him they still have a opportunity on the left. The issue is that Johnson does nothing between Ewell riding to meet Lee and coming back. The 1+ hour delay is the difference in the Union getting a regiment up their and the loss of daylight. Johnson won doesn't do his job, and Ewell doesn't ensure that Johnson is complying before riding to meet Lee back at Seminary ridge.

 

[rpkennedy]

Johnson also had a lot of bad luck. His scouting party that climbed Culp's Hill ran into the last picket outpost at the end of the line. Those couple guys made enough noise and trouble that the scouting party informed Johnson that it might be better to wait until it wasn't dark out before proceeding. Unfortunately, that allowed the Twelfth Corps to win this particular race.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Johnson also had a lot of bad luck. His scouting party that climbed Culp's Hill ran into the last picket outpost at the end of the line. Those couple guys made enough noise and trouble that the scouting party informed Johnson that it might be better to wait until it wasn't dark out before proceeding. Unfortunately, that allowed the Twelfth Corps to win this particular race.

Ryan

You're correct even with Johnsons delay, if he had simply forced his way up the hill he would of taken it.

 

[on again]

@Wizard of Cozz my rankings are based on five main categories:
1) Good for division and corps: D. R. Jones, W. D. Pender, J. B. Gordon, J. G. Walker, J. C. Breckinridge, A. P. Hill, D. H. Hill, and R. S. Ewell (before 2nd Manassas)
2) Good for division, but not for corps: R. H. Anderson, C. M. Wilcox, J. B. Hood, R. S. Ewell (after 2nd Manassas), J. A. Early, G. E. Pickett (after Gettysburg), R. Ransom, J. B. Kershaw, W. Mahone, R. F. Hoke, R. Rodes, E. Johnson, S. D. Ramseur, H. Heth, B. Grimes, and W. E. Starke (not mentioned)
3) Better for brigade: H. T. Hays, C. W. Field, B. Johnson, J. L. Kemper, A. Lawton, G. C. Wharton, J. Pegram, J. A. Walker, C. A. Evans, and R. L. Colston
4) Better for non-field duties: G. E. Pickett (after Gettysburg), L. McLaws
5) Bad: W. B. Taliaferro, J. R. Jones

My main point here is that Ewell and Pickett each had one major event that changed their style of generalship. Ewell had 2nd Manassas, and Pickett had Gettysburg. Before the battle, both were more aggressive commanders; afterwards, they weren't.

Dont Forget Thomas Taylor Munford [Acting Brigadiar General) sadly not confirmed

 

[Stryker65]

Dont Forget Thomas Taylor Munford [Acting Brigadiar General) sadly not confirmed
View attachment 555543

I've not done the cavalry commanders, who definitely deserve a second thread -- there were quite a few infantrymen and cavalrymen who would have done better in the other's branch.

 

[Grayman]

Totally agree with you about Early! The modern day people who I have known over 7 decades who curse constantly were Not Very Intelligent for the most part.

In my experience as an engineer in high tech for 30 years...it's bimodal. The intelligent cursers often do it out of frustration with colleagues, subordinates, managers, or others who get in the way of progress, efficiency, better outcomes, etc. Having higher expectations of others and them not meeting them (perhaps because the expectation is out-of-whack). Cursing is an outlet for pent-up anger. I also worked with people who were intelligent who just seemed to jovially drop f-bombs without realizing that other people were offended. I would hazard a guess that Early was perhaps in the prior grouo.

Then there are the smaller vocabulary folks in the other mode of the distribution, though there it is likely frustration/anger as well that drives some of it.

 

[neyankee61]

RH Anderson gets high points for his decision to keep moving south after the Wilderness battle. Placed in command of the I Corps after Longstreet's wounding, Anderson was ordered to march towards Spotsylvania CH. He pushed his troops arriving in the nick of time just before the arrival of Federal troops. Freeman in Volume 3 of Lee's Lieutenants has a chapter (Chapter XIX, The Advantage of an Early Start) devoted to Anderson's march. "Then, by a simple decision, promptly executed, Anderson thrills the Army and probably saves it from defeat."

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

RH Anderson gets high points for his decision to keep moving south after the Wilderness battle. Placed in command of the I Corps after Longstreet's wounding, Anderson was ordered to march towards Spotsylvania CH. He pushed his troops arriving in the nick of time just before the arrival of Federal troops. Freeman in Volume 3 of Lee's Lieutenants has a chapter (Chapter XIX, The Advantage of an Early Start) devoted to Anderson's march. "Then, by a simple decision, promptly executed, Anderson thrills the Army and probably saves it from defeat."

Anderson was a solid middle of the road division commander, who was better when he was under Longstreet, than with Hill.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

In my experience as an engineer in high tech for 30 years...it's bimodal. The intelligent cursers often do it out of frustration with colleagues, subordinates, managers, or others who get in the way of progress, efficiency, better outcomes, etc. Having higher expectations of others and them not meeting them (perhaps because the expectation is out-of-whack). Cursing is an outlet for pent-up anger. I also worked with people who were intelligent who just seemed to jovially drop f-bombs without realizing that other people were offended. I would hazard a guess that Early was perhaps in the prior grouo.

Then there are the smaller vocabulary folks in the other mode of the distribution, though there it is likely frustration/anger as well that drives some of it.

Good commentary by you. Yes, some highly intelligent people do curse out of frustration, etc., but my own experience is that those people do not curse frequently or constantly.

 

[rpkennedy]

RH Anderson gets high points for his decision to keep moving south after the Wilderness battle. Placed in command of the I Corps after Longstreet's wounding, Anderson was ordered to march towards Spotsylvania CH. He pushed his troops arriving in the nick of time just before the arrival of Federal troops. Freeman in Volume 3 of Lee's Lieutenants has a chapter (Chapter XIX, The Advantage of an Early Start) devoted to Anderson's march. "Then, by a simple decision, promptly executed, Anderson thrills the Army and probably saves it from defeat."

The more that I read about Anderson, the less impressed I am with him. He had a couple pretty serious hiccups that should have raised some eyebrows.

Probably the best description for him that I saw described him as competent but very lazy. He was pretty apathetic about the necessary details and his men often paid the price.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

The more that I read about Anderson, the less impressed I am with him. He had a couple pretty serious hiccups that should have raised some eyebrows.

Probably the best description for him that I saw described him as competent but very lazy. He was pretty apathetic about the necessary details and his men often paid the price.

Ryan

He was better under Longstreet who didn't et that slip as much imo.

 

[rpkennedy]

He was better under Longstreet who didn't et that slip as much imo.

On that, I agree. Although, how he handled his division at Antietam left a lot to be desired as well.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

On that, I agree. Although, how he handled his division at Antietam left a lot to be desired as well.

Ryan

Agree. He was pretty middle of the road. I think Spotsylvania boosts people opinion on him that don't know him well. He was terrible at Gettysburg.

 

[rpkennedy]

Agree. He was pretty middle of the road. I think Spotsylvania boosts people opinion on him that don't know him well. He was terrible at Gettysburg.

Spotsylvania helps a lot, no doubt.

I think Gettysburg is a great example of the laziness. Anderson gives the initial orders to his brigade commanders and then does nothing else. When Wright requests some help when Posey gets bogged down, Anderson continues to do nothing. By all accounts, he wasn't keeping an eye on how the attack was developing but was in the rear hanging out with his staff. It's definitely not a great look for him.

Ryan

 

[SWS]

Whenever I think of Anderson I think of how miserably he failed to strike a blow at Cold Harbor on 1 June 1864, even though it was his inclination to attack when Hoke reported the dust-choked and heat-exhausted straggling column of the VI Corps as being strung-out on the road at 1 P.M. I have no idea where he was during the aborted Hoke-Field offensive against Hare's Hill on 24 June. He was present during the Hoke-Field counter-offensive at Fort Harrison and once more failed to accomplish concert of action among the attacking divisions under his command. Lee probably swore never to entrust Anderson to offensive operations after that, and thus we find him commanding the rearguard at Appomattox.

 

[Luke Freet]

Spotsylvania helps a lot, no doubt.

I think Gettysburg is a great example of the laziness. Anderson gives the initial orders to his brigade commanders and then does nothing else. When Wright requests some help when Posey gets bogged down, Anderson continues to do nothing. By all accounts, he wasn't keeping an eye on how the attack was developing but was in the rear hanging out with his staff. It's definitely not a great look for him.

Ryan

Honestly, the more I read about him at Petersburg and the Valley, the more I think Charles Field could have done a better job commanding the corps. Anderson struggled to command and control his forces in battle.

 

[fyrd]

Anderson benefitted a lot from being very senior and not a total idiot.

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Honestly, the more I read about him at Petersburg and the Valley, the more I think Charles Field could have done a better job commanding the corps. Anderson struggled to command and control his forces in battle.

Field was super underrated! Both he and Kershaw were two of my fav division commanders.

 

[J C J Barefoot]

For any here that keep an Audiable account or subscribe to The Great Courses-- this set by Gary Gallagher on Lee's officers is very good. I've listened to it several times. Great insights and very entertaining.
https://www.amazon.com/Robert-Lee-His-High-Command/dp/B00DTO5XL0/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

 

[Grayman]

Good commentary by you. Yes, some highly intelligent people do curse out of frustration, etc., but my own experience is that those people do not curse frequently or constantly.

Well, I worked with quite a few copiously profane engineers and scientists, many with advanced degrees from top schools. Some with short tempers and no patience for others' shortcomings. They're out there. Heck, I might be decribed that way during part of my career.

It would be interesting to be able to hear Early speak or read a direct transcript of some of his more "flowery" verbal communication. Was he this way before the war? Enough rambling...