Aot - 1865

[PINCKNEYUSMCRET]

I would imagine as the Men of the AOT walk the streets of heaven those Marines on Guard up there render the proper courtesys

Pinckney

 

[larry_cockerham]

They would expect and get no less from a Marine.

 

[Nathanb1]

Dying sucks for the first one, last one, and all the ones in-between, their families and communities. They left holes that would never be filled. I remind my students that all these young men had promise...how many doctors, lawyers, teachers died? How many "inventions to be" never were? Maybe one of them would have fathered the man who invented the cure for cancer (or he might have done so himself). Maybe a future president was never born because his father didn't come back home. Maybe the men who might have been able to stop bigotry and racism in its tracks weren't there to change the laws and defend the rights of others....war is always a terrible thing, but I think for Americans this one is so terrible because it's such a waste of RESOURCES. People who would have been able to make America a better place. The north lost as well, but the south's loss was almost irreplaceable. How much different would life have been with all those fathers, husbands, sons and lovers home safely from the war? There are some things that will never be right about the south because of those losses.

 

[prroh]

I think that there were about 7,000 men in about 100 regiments that comprised the AoT at Bentonville. This is counting consolidated units as one regiment. Must have been a sea of regimental flags. My estimate close?

 

[larry_cockerham]

I think that there were about 7,000 men in about 100 regiments that comprised the AoT at Bentonville. This is counting consolidated units as one regiment. Must have been a sea of regimental flags. My estimate close?

Here's a link to Wikipedia which says 21,000. I suspect that's probably realistic. Sherman had about 60,000 men in the field at the time. 7k, brave as they were, would not have attempted anything quite that lopsided. Yes regimental flags, if they still existed in one piece, would have benefitted in many cases from the same spurt of wind. This was not the AOT's finest hour, though an honorable one. It was simply the AOT's last hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bentonville

 

[prroh]

Here's a link to Wikipedia which says 21,000. I suspect that's probably realistic. Sherman had about 60,000 men in the field at the time. 7k, brave as they were, would not have attempted anything quite that lopsided. Yes regimental flags, if they still existed in one piece, would have benefitted in many cases from the same spurt of wind. This was not the AOT's finest hour, though an honorable one. It was simply the AOT's last hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bentonville

The AoT was only a part of the 20,000 or so Confederates under Johnston. There were men from the Department of No Carolina, even some from the ANV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonville_Confederate_order_of_battle

 

[prroh]

Johnston called his amalgamation of units, The Army of the South. At Bentonville, there were about two Hundred regiments represented in this army of 21,000.
I think Hoke and hardee's "Corps" were the senior members of the newly patched together Army. The once proud AoT now numbered a little more as did a division two years earlier.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Johnston called his amalgamation of units, The Army of the South. At Bentonville, there were about two Hundred regiments represented in this army of 21,000.
I think Hoke and hardee's "Corps" were the senior members of the newly patched together Army. The once proud AoT now numbered a little more as did a division two years earlier.

Yes, I think you are on target. The force under Hardee, which had been worrying with Sherman to a degree from the Savannah area, probably weren't considered part of the AOT as I think you are suggesting. Would those ANV units have been from NC or troops such as Alabama or Georgia that might have been 'on the way home'? As you may have guessed, I haven't studied this too closely. The records between Jan 1, 1865 and Bentonville are scarce as hens teeth around here. That's why my posts are so sparse and scattered datewise.

 

[prroh]

I have heard estimates that 5,500 AoT vets were at Bentonville also, so my guess of 7,000 might be high. What do you think? Hardees troops were not part of the AoT as the OOB plainly states, neither were Hoke's or Wheeler and any other cavalry.

 

[larry_cockerham]

I knew I had seen this some where. From my 'file':

From the History of the 33rd Mississippi:

Bentonville

"On 19 March 1865 the pitifully small Army of Tennessee numbered about 4,000 men. They were deployed to the right of the Goldsboro Road and began to probe south through the woods. They then took a defensive position in the woods and awaited the Federals. The federal XIVth Corps moved to the attack and were repulsed by Stewart s men. They held their positions until mid-afternoon when the 33rd Mississippi and the remainder of the Army of Tennessee moved out to attack. One officer witnessed the charge and related, "It was a painful sight to see how close their battle flags were together, regiments being scarcely larger than companies and a division not much larger than a regiment should be."
Despite their small numbers the men of Featherston's Brigade who were there were the toughest of the tough. They slammed into Gen. Henry Slocum's XIVth Corps and pushed them back for over a mile. The Federals rallied in a pine thicket which was supported by trenches, a swamp, and the arriving XXth Corps. Here the two sides fought it out as isolated groups rather than organized regiments. The fighting continued into the night until the Confederates accepted the fact that the Yankees were not going to retreat any further. The Southerners then returned to their original positions. On the 20th, fresh Federal forces arrived at the battlefield. There were no new forces for the Confederacy. The two sides spent the day shooting at each other from behind trees. This continued on the 21st while the Confederate wounded were sent to the rear."

 

[larry_cockerham]

I don't remember if I posted this before, so please pardon if that is the case: This is the 21,000 that I recall, but obviously not all AOT as you suggest and as stated in the previous post.

Sherman's Carolina Campaign: February-March 1865 :

Bentonville, North Carolina (NC020) , Johnston County, March 19-21, 1865

John G. Barrett

"On March 18 just before dawn the Confederate chief of cavalry, CS Lieutenant General Wade Hampton, notified CS General Joseph E. Johnston that the Union army was marching on Goldsboro, not Raleigh, and that US Major General William Tecumseh Sherman's Right Wing was approximately half a day's march in advance of the Left Wing. Johnston saw an opportunity to crush one of the Union columns while it was separated from the other. Johnston ordered his troops at Smithfield and Elevation to Bentonville, a village approximately twenty miles west of Goldsboro. CS General Braxton Bragg was at Smithfield with CS Major General Robert F. Hoke's Division of North Carolinians, as well as remnants of the once-proud Army of Tennessee, the survivors of Franklin and Nashville, now under the command of CS Lieutenant General Alexander P. Stewart. CS Lieutenant General William J. Hardee was encamped at Elevation with the divisions of CS Major General Lafayette McLaws and CS Brigadier General W. B. Taliaferro. When Bragg and Stewart reached Bentonville on the eighteenth, Hardee was still six miles away.

Johnston's combat strength was about 21,000, considerably fewer than the 45,000 Sherman thought opposed him. This paucity in manpower was offset, at least in part, by the large number of able Confederate commanders present. Besides Johnston and Bragg, who were full generals, three officers—Hampton, Hardee, and Stewart—carried the rank of lieutenant general. Also on the field were many seasoned officers of lesser rank, including Major Generals Daniel Harvey Hill, Joseph Wheeler, Robert F. Hoke, Lafayette McLaws, and William W. Loring. Bentonville was singular among Civil War battles for having so few men led in combat by so many veteran officers of high rank.

During the evening of the eighteenth, Hampton informed Johnston that Union troops—US Major General Henry W. Slocum's column, with the XIV Corps in the lead, US Major General Jefferson C. Davis commanding—were moving down the Goldsboro Road. He recommended a surprise attack at the eastern end of the Cole plantation, about two miles south of Bentonville near the Goldsboro Road. The land there was marshy and covered with dense thickets of blackjack pine.

 

[TerryB]

The figure of 21,000 is very close. I think DuBose quoted Johnston as saying he had about 20,000 at the end. and the last chapter of his book is an excellent summary of the final events leading up to Joe Johnston's surrender. I'm also assuming the Eugene DuBose killed in that final skirmish was his brother or cousin. I haven't read the whole book, though.

 

[prroh]

"On 19 March 1865 the pitifully small Army of Tennessee numbered about 4,000 men. ;

This 104 regiments includes about a half dozen of regiments consolidated from two to four other depleted regiments. Three Corps with a little over a thousand men in each. These were the "bitter-enders" as maybe twice their number had deserted in recent weeks. Regiments with thirty men! How many of the thity were actual combat troops. Was the 4,000 man AoT overloaded with administrative and support troops vs combat ready?

 

[TerryB]

One ancestor whose name is on the rolls of the Arkansas mounted men surrendered in NC was in a company that only had six men in it. And I'm not even sure he was there. I've come across rosters with names of men who I know had not reassembled in the spring, while the names other others, who I know to have been there, are not on the rolls. Many of the men who were on their way to rejoin, stopped in their tracks when they heard the news of Lee's surrender.

 

[prroh]

Many of the men who were on their way to rejoin, stopped in their tracks when they heard the news of Lee's surrender.

Except that Lee's surrender was about three weeks in the future when the troops concentrated for Bentonville.

 

[TerryB]

Except that Lee's surrender was about three weeks in the future when the troops concentrated for Bentonville.

True, but Bentonville didn't end the war. I guess I'm thinking of what Jeff Davis wanted Johnston to do--retreat into the interior, which order Johnston disobeyed and wisely surrendered. Davis may never have forgiven him for that, but few of Davis's offocers were for fighting on. My thought was just that as Johnston was more or less sitting tight after Bentonville, many men who were on furlough for the winter were pledged to rejoin in the spring. I've read pension applications of quite a number of men from the AOT who were on their way to NC when they heard of Lee's surrender. Others were exchanged at City Point in March, the last exchanges as far as I know, and many of them made it to NC. DuBose also states that many from the ANV were streaming south through NC, some with paroles, others without. Wheeler wasn't included in Johnston's surrender, and he was on his way to cross the Mississippi when he was captured, in Georgia, I think. So there were still some diehards out there in May, but Kirby Smith's army evaporated when they heard the news about Lee.

 

[prroh]

, many men who were on furlough for the winter were pledged to rejoin in the spring. I've read pension applications of quite a number of men from the AOT who were on their way to NC when they heard of Lee's surrender. Others were exchanged at City Point in March, the last exchanges as far as I know, and many of them made it to NC. DuBose also states that many from the ANV were streaming south through NC, some with paroles, others without.

When and where were the furloughed men to rejoin the Army? Like many of the unparoled ANV solldiers, were these turnaround stories, just a cover the family invented to cover desertion?

,
Wheeler wasn't included in Johnston's surrender, and he was on his way to cross the Mississippi when he was captured, in Georgia,

Wheeler was commander of Davis' escort so I guess he was not under Johnston's command. The surrender of Johnston was not only his 20,000 something man Army of the South but the entire department. 82,000 in total.

 

[larry_cockerham]

This 104 regiments includes about a half dozen of regiments consolidated from two to four other depleted regiments. Three Corps with a little over a thousand men in each. These were the "bitter-enders" as maybe twice their number had deserted in recent weeks. Regiments with thirty men! How many of the thity were actual combat troops. Was the 4,000 man AoT overloaded with administrative and support troops vs combat ready?

No, they were not overloaded with anything, including food and shoes. These 4,000 were the last ones standing. Many of them were hoping to make Virginia because that was their home. Excactly when each man chose to vote with his feet, or go into battle at Bentonville is not recorded in great detail aside from the information the men left individually. My ancestor's pension application simply said "war's end". I'll take that to mean Bentonville and Durham until proven otherwise. I know he made it home to Washington County, Virginia in the summer of 65. He had been severely wounded in Aug, 1864 and was only 19 at the time, so he had time to heal somewhat (shrapnel in his legs). He was still having problems walking when he arrived back in Wallace's Swith, VA outside of Bristol. His pension application was signed by a couple of his company officers (from the 63rd VA), we I know they made it home as well. Being officers, I supspect that implies the unit was at the surrender more likely than not. Anyone have an opinion on that one?

 

[larry_cockerham]

As I'll mention later before I wrap up this part of this thread, the men under Taylor and Forrest were now part of an other department. They had once been central to the AOT, but were left to defend Mississippi and Alabama as best they could. Surrender for them came much later in South Alabama.

 

[TerryB]

When and where were the furloughed men to rejoin the Army? Like many of the unparoled ANV solldiers, were these turnaround stories, just a cover the family invented to cover desertion?



Wheeler was commander of Davis' escort so I guess he was not under Johnston's command. The surrender of Johnston was not only his 20,000 something man Army of the South but the entire department. 82,000 in total.

I always take what I read in pension applications with a huge grain of salt. However, the ones who were allowed pensions tend to be more believable since the Tennessee board was pretty strict. I even found one case where the family had to keep writing to say the veteran was dead yet the board kept sending his checks anyway. So I guess if you were okay with the Tennessee pension board, you could keep collecting your check in the hereafter. Seriously though, the pension claims are like any other historical source and have to be looked at with the same objective scrutiny. I would truely love to write a book along the lines of what the trip home was like for those parolled men.