America's Caesar

[TheSecretSix]

Considering one side unilaterally seceded and proceeded to steal anything not nailed down and then bombarding a military facility, one side absolutely made the war necessary.

According to most churches, yes, killing in war and in self-defense is not the same as murder which is what many theologians believe is the real meaning behind the commandment.

R

How about killing for Freeing Slaves and Preserving Unions? The Apostle Paul is on record as supporting the Fugitive Slave Law... centuries before it ever happened...

 

[Pat Young]

Okay, and which side made all of that necessary? Which side forced the hand of the other? Empire historically wins, this is true... but is it right? Killing in war is necessary, yes, but is it ever Christian? Desperate times and measures do not equate to a peacetime plan of government. The North would have yellow fringes on its flag forever, signifying what, exactly? Decoration, or outright military control?

You are saying that the Union forced white Southerners to rape torture and kill black people?

 

[KeyserSoze]

The North would have yellow fringes on its flag forever, signifying what, exactly? Decoration, or outright military control?

Wuh???

 

[Pat Young]

How about killing for Freeing Slaves and Preserving Unions? The Apostle Paul is on record as supporting the Fugitive Slave Law... centuries before it ever happened...

He was a noted Constitutional scholar and an expert on race relations.

 

[ForeverFree]

Okay, and which side made all of that necessary? Which side forced the hand of the other? Empire historically wins, this is true... but is it right? Killing in war is necessary, yes, but is it ever Christian? Desperate times and measures do not equate to a peacetime plan of government. The North would have yellow fringes on its flag forever, signifying what, exactly? Decoration, or outright military control?

In your opening post, you made reference to "the so-called emergency powers of the President of the United States." I was just making the point that both the CSA and USA seemed to have engaged in the use of "so-called emergency powers." I guessed that, what was bad for the goose was bad for the gander, and that any use of such powers (including by Confederates) was problematic on its face by the author's reckoning. I was asking for your thoughts on that.

You ask, Which side forced the hand of the other? Well, that's debatable. If your point is that desperate times require desperate measures, then both Lincoln and Davis would say they were victims of desperate times. And that they engaged in their policies not to set themselves up as Caesars, but rather, to achieve a cause they each believed was righteous.

RE: Killing in war is necessary, yes, but is it ever Christian? I'm not gonna touch that one. You can open a thread and see how far it gets. I suspect it'd get locked in less than 24 hours.

RE: The North would have yellow fringes on its flag forever, signifying what, exactly? Decoration, or outright military control? For the 39% of the Confederate State's population that was of African descent, that flag meant freedom, among other things. For most northern whites, it meant the preservation of the Union, and a nation that would be dedicated to free labor. For white southerners, not so much of either of the previous two.

- Alan

 

[IcarusPhoenix]

Wuh???

Ignore that; the yellow fringe on the flag thing is a deranged theory pushed by modern believers in the New World Order conspiracy. Six is just revealing to us yet more of his rather interesting idea of "valid" sources.

 

[DR_Hanna]

Cobb, Georgia??

Great State of. Where else?
Howell Cobb
Buried in Oconee Cemetery, Athens, Clarke County, Ga - I may visit him next time I head over that way.

 

[Pat Young]

Racist. Mmmh. A Good Old Civil War Term...

I was writing about a 21st Century publishing house. The term "racist" is period appropriate.

 

[Elennsar]

If you do, DR_Hanna , could you tell me what exactly he did to be honored?

No, not over slavery or secession. I'm just not sure if he had a lot to make his memory deserve more attention than any other Georgian.

 

[ForeverFree]

How about killing for Freeing Slaves and Preserving Unions? The Apostle Paul is on record as supporting the Fugitive Slave Law... centuries before it ever happened...

You're starting to scare me...

TSS, the American Revolution was fought over the ideals of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I guess the Confederates would say the same.

Why then would it not be OK to fight for the freedom of the enslaved? Are you saying it's OK to fight for the freedom of some people, and not others?

I will say this: African American soldiers were not asking Confederates for their opinion on the matter. This is what former slave Samuel Cabble, a private in the Fifty-fifth Massachusetts Infantry regiment, said in a letter to his wife:

Dear Wife i have enlisted in the army i am now in the state of Massachusetts but before this letter reaches you i will be in North Carlinia and though great is the present national dificulties yet i look forward to a brighter day When i shall have the opertunity of seeing you in the full enjoyment of fredom

i would like to no if you are still in slavery if you are it will not be long before we shall have crushed the system that now opreses you for in the course of three months you shall have your liberty. great is the outpouring of the colered peopl that is now rallying with the hearts of lions against that very curse that has seperated you an me yet we shall meet again and oh what a happy time that will be when this ungodly rebellion shall be put down and the curses of our land is trampled under our feet

i am a soldier now and i shall use my utmost endeavor to strike at the rebellion and the heart of this system that so long has kept us in chains . . . remain your own afectionate husband until death

Samuel Cabble​

Bottom line is, not all southern freedom fighters were dressed in grey.

- Alan

 

[TheSecretSix]

Ignore that; the yellow fringe on the flag thing is a deranged theory pushed by modern believers in the New World Order conspiracy. Six is just revealing to us yet more of his rather interesting idea of "valid" sources.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Master Icarus P. I have for some time been concerned.

 

[Pat Young]

Ignore that; the yellow fringe on the flag thing is a deranged theory pushed by modern believers in the New World Order conspiracy. Six is just revealing to us yet more of his rather interesting idea of "valid" sources.

I did not know that particular bit of conspiracy theory. Wow, a secret military occupation whose masterminds decided to leave a hint, for no apparent reason, in the yellow fringe around a flag. Wow.

 

[TheSecretSix]

I did not know that particular bit of conspiracy theory. Wow, a secret military occupation whose masterminds decided to leave a hint, for no apparent reason, in the yellow fringe around a flag. Wow.

The Greatest Deception of the Devil... is that he does not exist.

 

[diane]

Well, I'm outta here.

 

[cash]

George Washington's 1796 Farewell Address, the original daft of the Declaration of Independence and Abraham Lincoln's July 4, 1861 Address to Congress in Special Secession is considered by you, Cash, as a pack of lies?

Selective quotations out of context are certainly a pack of lies. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

 

[cash]

Wuh???

It's wacko modern conspiracy theory politics. Some wacko made a claim about US flags with yellow fringes hanging in schools and other government buildings and other wackos believe it.

 

[DR_Hanna]

If you do, DR_Hanna , could you tell me what exactly he did to be honored?

No, not over slavery or secession. I'm just not sure if he had a lot to make his memory deserve more attention than any other Georgian.

Howell Cobb, before the Civil War, was a accomplished and respected American. He was a "racist" no doubt, to use the modern term. Apparently, from your posts you are of the opinion that no Confederate Southerner (other that perhaps Lee) has any redeeming qualities or is deserving of any respect. I apologize if I get your take on it wrong. I believe your attitude is as far to the extreme on the one side as some of the "Lost Cause" attitudes that you oppose.

 

[DR_Hanna]

I did not find an old book by Cobb. I offered it as part of the publisher's program of pro-slavery books along with the publisher's sympathetic descriptions of their contents.

Didn't mean to (and don't believe I did) imply you were promoting the content. I love these old books - If I want to know the truth about what these guys really believed - read what they said. It is astounding. I don't personally agree with any of it.

 

[Rebel_Giratina]

IMHO Cobb would have made a better POTCS than Davis. But now I think I have derailed this thread so bad, it's not funny.

 

[DanF]

How about killing for Freeing Slaves and Preserving Unions? The Apostle Paul is on record as supporting the Fugitive Slave Law... centuries before it ever happened...

That would be the same apostle Paul whose writings ultimately caused Christians to become increasingly uncomfortable with Slavery.

The same apostle who said that wheter they were free or slave, male or female, they were all thw same, one in Christ.

It is not a coincidence tbat anti slavery sentiment began and florished with Christian groups.