1863 US Springfield Rifle VAlue

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimbow
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Jimbow

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I have an old 1863 Springfield Rifle "trapdoor" type with the bayonet. Wondering what today's value on this type of rifle would be? I know condition is everything on these. It is in decent shape with sights and barrel bands intact and it appears to function well. The ramrod is still under the barrel and the bayonet fits nicely. The stock appears to have cracked at some time behind the trigger guard and has been repaired by wrapping a strip of brass around it and fitting it like a cast. I have no info on the rifle's history. Just wondering what I should ask for it if I decide to sell. I'm new to this subject and anxious to hear from some experts. Thanks for your time.
 
A " picture is worth a thousand words" may be a little overstated but it would help. You probably have a 50/70 1st Allin conversion.. I'm sure you got the 1863 from the lock. The surplus CW muskets were converted to breach loaders to fire metallic cartridges. There many different ones but the Allin "trapdoor" was the most successful and were then produced as a new rifle by the U.S. military up until the 1890's. It is hard to put a concrete value on it but I would not plan to retire on its sale.
 
I dont think they were used in the ACW. Someone tried to sell me an Allin Conversion two summers ago. They wanted $1500. I didnt bite. It wasnt moving to quick at that price. Condition was fair.
 
Specter - If you were looking at a 1st Model Allin Conversion the price wouldn't have been bad at all!
J.

I wasnt...the seller said he had a civil war springfield. I met him in a parking lot, I doubt I would find him again. I bought an artillery saber (ames) which was in fair shape and then he pulled out the Allin. I did not bite. I asked some people and I think you were one who said it was not used in the ACW. (I did not know what it was!) I saw 1863 and thought it had to be ACW. At the end of the day I think I could do better. Yet that is before the Edict of Obahma, which came down today, and may be a game changer.

PS I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that the South was going to rise again - soon, in the form of militias. I think one Abrams tank would end such a rebellion. Go figure!
 
A friend bough a pretty good 1st Allin a couple of months ago at a pawn shop for $500.
The Pawnbroker didn't really know anything about it though.
 
I'd love an Allin; the gun that won the wagon box fight! I've had more people over the years ask me to identify a civil war gun they have in a closet. Most often it's a trapdoor Springfield from the 1880s. Sporterized they were a very popular hunting gun up until about 20 years ago.
 
I had some pictures back on a September 19, 2014 thread I started but I cant pull them off the thread. "New to Forum Need Help With 1864 Springfield"
 
If it is the .50-70 conversion you can usually find the date that the conversion was made on the top of the action, that is the piece that is opened and moved upward to accept the cartridge. It's usually pretty small, so look for a small something like 1870, or 1868 at that spot. For whatever reason that escapes me, the conversions sell for about 65% of what the same musket will sell for if unconverted. This never made sense to me as with this kind of a musket you get something that was once used in the ACW and then retained for use by the US Army for use in the Plains Indian Wars. Speaking of those wars, after the army went to the .45-70 trapdoor (or the .45-55 version carbine) rifle, they dumped the earlier conversions onto the market where quite a number wound up being sold to the Indians. They has difficulty, however, finding the proper ammunition, so with the new .45-70 now being made they tried shooting that cartridge in the older conversion model and, surprise, it worked, kind of. The .45-70 will chamber and fire in the .50-70 conversion (don't try this at home, kids) but the smaller caliber cartridge will not grip the larger rifling, turning the refile into a smooth bore. Since Indians usually preferred to fight up close and personal it probably did not matter much. The brass cartridge usually split and often failed to extract. What is fascinating about this bit of information is that it has helped document the movement of the Indians at the Little Big Horn. Since only the Indians were firing the newer cartridges in the older guns the trail of spilt cartridges is an accurate record of their movement vis a vis the Seventh Cavalry. I have one of these muskets (dated 1871 on the breech) counter stamped on the stock "C. Chrisdie" (Charles Chrisdie, not the governor) which was a theatrical prop firm of the early 20th Century which provided firearms to movie producers. Oh, I wish this old musket could tell me the tales of its use.
 
If the lock plate is dated 1863 then it is a 2nd Model Allin Conversion, all of the 1st model had a lock plate date of 1865 and only 5,000 converted. The second model 25,000 converted in 1866 and price ranges from NRA Good $750 to NRA Fine $2,000.
 
Thanks on the NRA estimate of value. I wonder, though, if the C. Chrisdie cartouche on the stock affects the value of it.
 
Very doubtful, I had a very nice Sharps Carbine stamped with the D. W. Griffith Productions Cartouche, indicating that it was used in the movie "Birth of a Nation" and thought that I had the crown jewel. Unfortunately ACW collectors see the cartouche as an abstraction and the movie buffs don't want to pay the price of what the piece was worth just ACW. You would have to be patient and find an ACW + movie buff.

I tried to sell it to a fairly renown CW dealer and he said that it was worth more to him w/o the cartouche.
 
Some early breech loaders. Springfield armory. Pre 1865
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
 

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