1863 Savage Musket

[tws3177]

Hello everyone,
My name is Tony and Im a new member here. I need everyones help if possible. So I recently was walking through an estate sale and this rifle caught my eye. So I asked the gentlemen if Incould see the rifle, he handed it to me and it is a dated 1863 Savage musket. Now Im not smart on these weapons but i instantly fell in love with it so I purchased it. When I got home me and my Dad were doing some research to find out the authenticity and found alot of the markings seem legit expect to concerning ones. Where the VP is on the barrel displays no eagle stamp and has the word "HARMON" on it.
Other markings are the US on the but plate, a U on the rings (only 2 rings suggesting shortened barrel) an H on the rear sight, N.J. on the stock, and seems to be a personal engraving on the stock near the trigger weld suggesting 3H or 3A.
Can some please provide me some knowledge on what I have? Replica or not, I love the rifle and will keep forever.

 

[redbob]

Those pretty sharp people that I was referring to should be able to provide you with the information that you seek here shortly.

 

[redbob]

Since those pretty sharp people haven't checked in yet, a dull one will give it a shot:
Google History of the Savage Revolving Firearms Company-American Society of Arms Collectors and I believe that you will find answers to many of your questions.

 

[James N.]

If I'm remembering right, the eagle head was the (or one of the) last stamps applied, indicating acceptance by the U.S.; since this particular rifle was made under a contract with the State of New Jersey and NOT the Federal Government, I believe this accounts for the omission of the eagle head and substation of the name Harmon, likely the New Jersey inspector who inspected and accepted it for the state. Don't worry - it's an authentic U.S. M.1861 by Savage as used by New Jersey troops during the war. Welcome to the forums!

 

[redbob]

If I'm remembering right, the eagle head was the (or one of the) last stamps applied, indicating acceptance by the U.S.; since this particular rifle was made under a contract with the State of New Jersey and NOT the Federal Government, I believe this accounts for the omission of the eagle head and substation of the name Harmon, likely the New Jersey inspector who inspected and accepted it for the state. Don't worry - it's an authentic U.S. M.1861 by Savage as used by New Jersey troops during the war. Welcome to the forums!

This is one of the sharp ones that I was referring to.

 

[originalrebelyell]

Its original it looks real good.

 

[tws3177]

Thank you so much for the great info. Next question, is there a good place to get appraised? I want to see how good I did on my purchase.

 

[tws3177]

Would anyone happen to know what the 3H or 3A may have represented?

 

[PrivateBrooke]

Would anyone happen to know what the 3H or 3A may have represented?

More than likely the "3" is a regimental designation, the "A/H" a company designation. Since it was a New Jersey contract, "3rd New Jersey Company A" or "3rd New Jersey Company H" would be my guess. So that's the company the soldier this musket was originally issued belong to.

The 3rd was a part of the Army of The Potomac's "First New Jersey Brigade," with the 1st, 2nd, and 4th NJ Regiments.

 

[redbob]

I think that you are going to find that this is a rather strange beast and not all that common.

 

[tws3177]

Really? Thank you so much! I am so excited to have found this excellent piece of history!

 

[tws3177]

Redbob..I believe your right as I have had difficulty trying to find information on this particular rifle with the markings.

 

[vmicraig]

It was produced in Middletown, CT - Savage produced 25,520 of them between 1862-64. A fine condition is listed in Falyderman's at $2750, although that price is 8 years old since they updated prices. What's the length of your barrel? So-called artillery models with 33" barrels are allegedly out there, but are mostly attributed to Springfield and still questionable if the actual shortening was post war as opposed to armory production. Once the arms were considered unservicable or had been replaced by more modern arms, they were sold off and converted to make them more appealing to the mass market. Bannerman's made a fortune off this. This one is certainly nicer than the typical sporterized, shotgun versions. Some were shortened for GAR units or military schools, which could explain the Harmon stamp, perhaps stamped for an individual owner or recipient. Regardless, that's a nice piece and it's in great shape.

 

[tws3177]

And I imagine that find out if it was shortened post war or during or was for shortened for military use is next to impossible.

 

[redbob]

Savage and North was best known for their pistols, however when no contracts were available; they negotiated with Parker, Snow, Brooks and Company to fulfill a contract for 25,000 of the Model 1861 Springfield Pattern Rifles. 13,500 were delivered by February, 24th 1864 with the other 11,500 to be delivered later. 8,000 of this 11,500 were condemned and not accepted by Federal Inspectors and of these, several thousand were sold to the State of New Jersey. Like I said, a rather strange bird with a peculiar pedigree, but to sum it all up; I think that you have yourself a winner.

 

[tws3177]

There is an 1864 springfield with no vp or eagle markings at all, is it a replica or authentic

 

[mofederal]

An excellent rifle. Thank you for posting it. it I like look of it.

 

[tws3177]

Im at a store debating on on purchasing the 1864 springfield with no vp, date or eahle on back of barrel. Is it authentic or replica.

 

[tws3177]

Please help me.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome from the Heart Of Dixie. VERY NICE Savage. The condition is fantastic. The NJ ids this one as part of the New Jersey militia contract and all of those were for the standard 40 inch barrels. I'm in the same opnion as @vmicraig It is a post war cut down conversion for a military school but still a GREAT piece.