1860 Enfield

[CrustyOld1SG]

Hello hope everyone is having a good Friday. I'm new to the site and was hoping that I could get some feedback on a musket rifle I have. I had a gunsmith look it over and he seams to think it is authentic and serviceable. Here are some pictures please let me know.what you think.

 

[ikesdad]

Looks like somebody in one of those 'stan countries got a hold of that and embellished the sheet out of it.

 

[captaindrew]

Interesting piece with all that engraving. Looks to be in good shape. Thanks for sharing. You say you acquired it in the Middle East in your meet and greet post correct?

 

[originalrebelyell]

The lock like a middle eastern copy. The lock markings do not look right to me.

 

[ikesdad]

Looks like a middle eastern copy. The lock markings do not look right to me.

Yep, the front half doesn't look kosher.

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

Interesting piece with all that engraving. Looks to be in good shape. Thanks for sharing. You say you acquired it in the Middle East in your meet and greet post correct?

Yes sir I acquired it in Afghanistan in 2012. I would really like to know the story that gun could tell.

 

[UCVRelics]

I'm going the other way. The crown over the VR, the barrel stamps and the unit markings on the tang of the butt plate I'm going to stick my neck and say that it was a surplus gun that was sent to British Raj sometime in the 1870 till ?

 

[Story]

Buttplate stamped 1 / 17th.

Possible 17th Bengal Infantry, they were in Afghanistan at one point.
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/indianinfantry/17thloyal.htm

 

[Story]

Yes sir I acquired it in Afghanistan in 2012. I would really like to know the story that gun could tell.

Post crisp, clear photos of the rear sight. That'll reveal much.

I believe the rifle is an Enfield 1860 .577 cal. that I acquired during a rotation Afghanistan. .

Drop a borelight down the muzzle, see what the rifling looks like and take a micrometer to the muzzle. There's a [small, given the rear sight] chance it'll be larger-than-.577 and smoothbore.

 

[Story]

I'm going the other way. The crown over the VR, the barrel stamps and the unit markings on the tang of the butt plate I'm going to stick my neck and say that it was a surplus gun that was sent to British Raj sometime in the 1870 till ?

Indian units were always at least one level of technology behind British units in India after the Sepoy Rebellion (simply because if you issue unreliable vassel units the same weapons as your own people, it encourages said unreliables to get uppity).

If a British unit had .577 Enfields, then the locals would have smoothbores.
If a British unit had .577 Snider-Enfield breachloaders, then the locals would have .577 Enfields or smoothbores.
The .577/.450 Martini Henry Mk I rifles didn't show up until 1871, so it stands to reason that this rifle would be appropriate if issued to the 17th (Bengal) when they were in Afghanistan (1870-1880) - as it would have been one tech level behind the British units there at that time.

 

[UCVRelics]

I remember on one of my trip to Ireland to play some golf and drink some Guinness, I was in a pub after a round with some VERY nice locals and there was a mint 1863 Springfield hanging over the fireplace. I stood there a very long time looking at that musket thinking how did it get here. It wasn't till years later it hit me "Bannermans"

 

[Story]

The best people to vet this would be the folks over at the British Militaria Forums
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/index.php

 

[mofederal]

An interesting 1860 Enfield. If it could speak, the tales it could tell, the places it had been, who used and carried it.

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

Post crisp, clear photos of the rear sight. That'll reveal much.
The bore is clean and shiny no pits and the rifling is in good shape

Drop a borelight down the muzzle, see what the rifling looks like and take a micrometer to the muzzle. There's a [small, given the rear sight] chance it'll be larger-than-.577 and smoothbore.

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

Thank you all for your feed back and advice. I will post some better pictures and measure the bore as I just took the gunsmiths word on the..577. I am pumped about this now can't wait to get this gun to the range and see how it shoots.

 

[Craig L Barry]

It has the oval rear sling swivel and Baddeley barrel bands that post-date the lockplate date of 1860. Obviously somebody did a bit of decorative metal work on it for reasons we could only guess. This one would not have had any US Civil War provenance. It was apparently made at RSAF and has British War Dept marks all over it. It did foreign service for the crown someplace.

Lastly, not sure I would live fire it.

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

Thank you all very much for your feedback this is what I was hoping for I will get some better pics as soon as I can. If the posts that were suspect of the lock markings please post a pic of what they should look like that would be great. I am a total novice at this and appreciate all your help. When I purchased it at the bazaar I was fairly certain that it was more than likely a knock off but have had several people tell me they believe it to be of english mfg. thanks again everyone.

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

Buttplate stamped 1 / 17th.

Possible 17th Bengal Infantry, they were in Afghanistan at one point.
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/indianinfantry/17thloyal.htm

Thanks for the link this make sense of how this weapon would have made its way to Afghanistan.

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

It has the oval rear sling swivel and Baddeley barrel bands that post-date the lockplate date of 1860. Obviously somebody did a bit of decorative metal work on it for reasons we could only guess. This one would not have had any US Civil War provenance. It was apparently made at RSAF and has British War Dept marks all over it. It did foreign service for the crown someplace.

Lastly, not sure I would live fire it.

What kind of story could it tell ? Would you mind expanding on your remark about the rear swivel sling and Baddeley barrel bands for me ( in Enfield for dummies terms ) or send a link that could. thanks for sharing

 

[CrustyOld1SG]

The lock like a middle eastern copy. The lock markings do not look right to me.

Please expand on this for me as to what it should look like. Thanks for your input