1860 dated Ames 1860 sword

[lastditch]

I have been following the forum for a while, my main interest is mid to late 1800 U.S. and European cartridge rifles which I shoot. I do have several Civil War carbines, again which I shoot.
So thought I needed a Civil War sword to display with my firearms.
I found this one at a show, bought it because of clear date and readable Ames maker mark.
It is 1860 dated, no U.S. or inspector stamps, after some searches the information seems to indicate some of these were shipped to Virginia.
A friend has John Thillmans blue book, he sent me some information that helped.
So my question is does this sword have the correct look for the early contract for Ames.
Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[Dbackfed29]

That certainly looks like a Virginia contract. No Federal inspector marks.

 

[gjpratt]

It's correct. Congrats!

 

[UCVRelics]

Nice one. As far as the VA connection goes only 1200 of the 5000 made went to VA. Look on the scabbard drag there should be a GGS stamped on it.

 

[lastditch]

Thank you for the quick reply on my sword. Unfortunately the drag has enough pitting that if there would have been an inspector stamp they would be unreadable.
I knew enough to know there should be inspection stamps on some parts of the sword. Just wanted a readable date and maker and hopefully one that went though the war.
I am happy with the sword, I imagine it will lead to a few more. I guess it already has since I purchased a 1840 Sheble & Fisher from the same dealer, but no scabbard.

 

[UCVRelics]

This is where it should be. Also, any initials on the pommel cap?

 

[lastditch]

Nothing on pommel cap or guard branches. Somewhere online there was mention of "Southern Star" on pommel cap, that is absence also.

 

[Dbackfed29]

I've got an 1860 dated Ames without Federal inspector's marks as well. Nothing on the drag of the scabbard either.

 

[UCVRelics]

Now that is a nice Ames 1860. Most of the 1860's were made between March - Sept. A few states purchased some of the 5000 of the 1860 stamped Ames for their state cavs. VA was one. The VA's were delivered before hostilities. Kind of like Colt saying they NEVER sold pistols to the South.

 

[Bonedaddy]

Mine has the star and the inspector initials.

 

[bayonet]

Nice one. As far as the VA connection goes only 1200 of the 5000 made went to VA. Look on the scabbard drag there should be a GGS stamped on it.

Here's a question for you? Is the GGS also stamped on the scabbard drag of the 1859 AMES models?

 

[bayonet]

I have been following the forum for a while, my main interest is mid to late 1800 U.S. and European cartridge rifles which I shoot. I do have several Civil War carbines, again which I shoot.
So thought I needed a Civil War sword to display with my firearms.
I found this one at a show, bought it because of clear date and readable Ames maker mark.
It is 1860 dated, no U.S. or inspector stamps, after some searches the information seems to indicate some of these were shipped to Virginia.
A friend has John Thillmans blue book, he sent me some information that helped.
So my question is does this sword have the correct look for the early contract for Ames.
Thank you in advance for the help.

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Up to you but if you want you can get the wire for the grip at a very low price and restore the sword from Tom Nardi at www.swordrestorationtn.com
He sells several different colors and the "tarnished" is perfect. I restored one I have and I can't tell the difference when I compare it to all the others I have. There was a bit difficulty getting the wire under the pommel but I got it done. I would not try it with a 1840 or Artillery models since the wire goes under the pommel like 3 times. It's only once under the pommel for the 1860s.

 

[R. Porter]

I have read several things on the model 1860's sent to Virginia. As a result, I'm not at all clear on what identifies a Virginia saber. From one source it seems that the Virginia swords were to be inspected, which would imply that inspector initials should be found on them. The original poster did not show the pommel cap of his sword, where inspector stamps are typically found. From other sources I have been informed that swords sent south received a star stamp, presumably from an inspector in Virginia. On cavalry sabers it is found on the pommel cap as shown on Bonedaddy's sword above. On model 1840 NCO swords it is found on the bottom of the guard on the raised piece that runs between the two lobes. I have yet to see something that will definitely, without question, identity a model 1860 cavalry sword dated 1860 sent to Virginia by Ames before the war began.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

This is likely one of the 1200 sabers Buchanan's Secretary of War, John Floyd (former VA governor and future Confederate general), directed be sent to Virginia in early 1860. Most 1860-dated Ames cavalry sabers have the normal inspection markings, i.e. "U.S./(inspector's initials)/1860", but this one just has the date. John Thillmann, in his book Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers, suggests these swords with no inspector's marks were early shipments made before Ames received the memo from Chief of Ordnance Craig instructing them that the Virginia swords were to be inspected in the same manner as usual, and that Virginia would pick up the cost for the inspections. It was these inspected swords which were marked with the "Southern Star". How many of the 1200 swords were inspected as opposed to how many were uninspected is unknown. I do not believe the drags of the uninspected sabers were marked. These "Virginia" Ames sabers were used to arm JEB Stuart's 1st Virginia Volunteer Cavalry Regiment. Here is a picture of my uninspected 1860 Ames:

 

[TLHS]

This is likely one of the 1200 sabers Buchanan's Secretary of War, John Floyd (former VA governor and future Confederate general), directed be sent to Virginia in early 1860. Most 1860-dated Ames cavalry sabers have the normal inspection markings, i.e. "U.S./(inspector's initials)/1860", but this one just has the date. John Thillmann, in his book Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers, suggests these swords with no inspector's marks were early shipments made before Ames received the memo from Chief of Ordnance Craig instructing them that the Virginia swords were to be inspected in the same manner as usual, and that Virginia would pick up the cost for the inspections. It was these inspected swords which were marked with the "Southern Star". How many of the 1200 swords were inspected as opposed to how many were uninspected is unknown. I do not believe the drags of the uninspected sabers were marked. These "Virginia" Ames sabers were used to arm JEB Stuart's 1st Virginia Volunteer Cavalry Regiment. Here is a picture of my uninspected 1860 Ames:View attachment 506893

Is anyone aware of what the "Southern Star" mark looks like?

This is likely one of the 1200 sabers Buchanan's Secretary of War, John Floyd (former VA governor and future Confederate general), directed be sent to Virginia in early 1860. Most 1860-dated Ames cavalry sabers have the normal inspection markings, i.e. "U.S./(inspector's initials)/1860", but this one just has the date. John Thillmann, in his book Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers, suggests these swords with no inspector's marks were early shipments made before Ames received the memo from Chief of Ordnance Craig instructing them that the Virginia swords were to be inspected in the same manner as usual, and that Virginia would pick up the cost for the inspections. It was these inspected swords which were marked with the "Southern Star". How many of the 1200 swords were inspected as opposed to how many were uninspected is unknown. I do not believe the drags of the uninspected sabers were marked. These "Virginia" Ames sabers were used to arm JEB Stuart's 1st Virginia Volunteer Cavalry Regiment. Here is a picture of my uninspected 1860 Ames:View attachment 506893

 

[TLHS]

Is anyone aware of what the "Southern Star" mark looks like?

 

[Bonedaddy]

See Post #10.