1853 Enfield

[wsswann]

I've just come into possession of an 1853 Enfield rifle with a Tower marked and 1861 dated lock. There are several stamps on the barrel that I haven't been able to find out much information on besides the 25 on the top left of the barrel for .577 caliber. I'll let the pictures do most of the talking.

I have found no markings on the stock itself except for the left side of the butt. I believe them to be H 0 8 stacked above each other and slightly staggered to the right or H with two separate rows of numerals possibly. There also looks to be AT stamped or carved behind the H 0 8. Possibly a previous owners initials?

There is a carved R on the left side, opposite of the lock plate.

The ramrod is not the typical 1853 style with the slotted jag head. Possibly an earlier type? It appears to have been with the gun for quite sometime.

Both sling swivels are missing.

Any information on this gun and the markings would be much appreciated. Or if more details are needed. Is this a genuine original? Is there any way to tell if it is a Civil War for import?

Thanks in advance for anything that can be provided.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

It is a genuine, original Birmingham made Pattern 1853 type 3 rifle musket.

There may be other marks in the wood. Those photos you've taken are the marks of the parts maker, supplier, fitter or inspector. These rifle muskets were hand finished as the parts were not interchangeable. The ram rod is replaced, as you noted. Overall it's a pretty nice P53.

Directly under this post; click on Similar threads to find photos and discussions of the CSA & US import marks, assuming this gun was imported.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum and nice piece

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. Nice Enfield, as @Lanyard Puller suggested we have many threads on Enfields here and they are loaded with info. You can also go to the top right hand corner of the page and use the search button to find them all.

 

[lelliott19]

Hello @wsswann and welcome to CivilWarTalk -- the best place on the internet for Civil War discussion. Happy to have you aboard. That's a nice Enfield. I like it. Thanks for sharing the images. Looking forward to more posts from you and, again, welcome aboard!

 

[Texas Johnny]

Nice one! Thanks for posting the photos.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[James N.]

Welcome to the forums from the host of the Stonewall Jackson Forum and another firearms enthusiast!

 

[Package4]

I've just come into possession of an 1853 Enfield rifle with a Tower marked and 1861 dated lock. There are several stamps on the barrel that I haven't been able to find out much information on besides the 25 on the top left of the barrel for .577 caliber. I'll let the pictures do most of the talking.

I have found no markings on the stock itself except for the left side of the butt. I believe them to be H 0 8 stacked above each other and slightly staggered to the right or H with two separate rows of numerals possibly. There also looks to be AT stamped or carved behind the H 0 8. Possibly a previous owners initials?

There is a carved R on the left side, opposite of the lock plate.

The ramrod is not the typical 1853 style with the slotted jag head. Possibly an earlier type? It appears to have been with the gun for quite sometime.

Both sling swivels are missing.

Any information on this gun and the markings would be much appreciated. Or if more details are needed. Is this a genuine original? Is there any way to tell if it is a Civil War for import?

Thanks in advance for anything that can be provided.

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A nice P53 Enfield in .577 caliber as denoted by the 25 * 25 "bore size" on the top of the barrel, these marks usually denote export and I assume it found its way to America to participate in the Northern Aggression.........welcome to the forums, from Maryland!

 

[mofederal]

Hello and welcome to the CivilWarTalk from Southeast Missouri. A great looking Enfield. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just jump right in and enjoy.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

As you say, that is not the correct ramrod for an Enfield of any vintage. It looks like a ramrod that would have been used for a smooth-bore flintlock musket.

 

[Lubliner]

Welcome from the Railroads and Steam Locomotives Forum. That is an interesting piece. I have never seen so many markings on an Enfield, or any other for that matter. I would enjoy having them explained. Package 4 explained the bore size, but the 62, and the initials on so many of the smaller parts, hammer, etc. haven't. Is this usual, or am I being forgetful (usually).
Lubliner.

 

[Yankeedave]

Hello and welcome from Colorado. Nice weapon there Sir.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

By the way, the various marks on the bottom of the barrel and the breech end shown in your photographs show initials of the various men who made or fitted or inspected the parts, but won't show whether this particular gun went to America, north or south, or any particular part of the world.
This is a Birmingham made gun, and thousands of people in Birmingham were involved in making and fitting parts, usually paid by piece, and many worked in small individual shops or even at home with family members helping out. Most had specific specialties or made specific parts, and the gunmaker would buy from many different people to make a single musket.

An oversimplified explanation would be:

1. Gunmaker announces on Monday morning he will buy parts for 500 muskets, and wants them delivered by Saturday noon.
2. Gunmaker contracts for 500 parts from all the various part makers (often separate deals for wood screws, locks, barrels, ramrods, bands, buttplates, nose cops, and etc., etc.) and those part makers go home or to their shops and make those parts.
3. Sometimes, these were real home projects, with children and grandparents sitting around the kitchen table shaping parts.
4. Sometimes, the parts were made at the Gunmaker's factory, either by his employees, or in independent shops located in his factory (just as hair dressers today often rent a chair or small salon and run their own business in someone's larger beauty shop or salon)
5. Part makers work the week, and deliver the parts Saturday to the gunmaker's factory, and are paid per part for accepted parts.
6. Gunmaker has skilled craftsman put the parts together, hand fitting them.
7. Gunmaker has 500 completed muskets. Two hundred might have barrels finished by "J L" and 300 might have barrels finished and stamped by "W R." A careful student of these might know who J L is or who W R is, or the identity of "P & P" (likely the supplier of the finished barrel to the Gunmaker), but that won't tell you much more.
8. The company that put these all together would stamp the company name in the wood on the bottom of the stock, between trigger guard and buttstock - is there a name stamped there?

The makers of the various parts marked them; if found deficient, their pay would be docked. The important parts (barrel, breech plug, etc) were inspected and the inspector marked his initials to show the work was satisfactory. On your barrel, those marks might show different men approved the rough barrel, approved the rifling, approved the final polish, approved the threading for the breech plug, installed / approved the breechplug, etc. etc. etc. So, they mean something, but not information likely to help you figure out the history of this particular gun.

 

[johan_steele]

As a note to the excellent above post there was a fella in the late 90's who got his hands on a P53 that had been unissued in storage somewhere. It was in remarkable condition and out of curiosity he dismounted the lock and sent it to a friend in PD who fingerprinted and did several other CSI level analysis on the lock. IIRC there was evidence of a dozen or so different people handling the internals of the lock.

 

[Craig L Barry]

The Chairman of Birmingham Small Arms Trade, John Dent Goodman, wrote extensively on the roles of workers employed in the Birmingham system of manufacture. Most of the important material on this topic appears in The resources, products, and industrial history of Birmingham, and the midland hardware district: a series of reports, collected by the Local industries committee of the British association at Birmingham,. Ed. by Samuel Timmins (1866).

There is also a chapter in one of the Suppliers to the Confederacy books on the Birmingham system of manufacture. There is quite a bit more to it than you can post in an online forum, even in superficial detail.

 

[wsswann]

Thanks for the responses. Other than what was listed above, I have found no other markings on the stock. I do find it interesting how light and small the original feels compared to a reproduction 1853 I have. Either way, I'm proud to have an original one.

 

[Lubliner]

Would additional parts be made beyond the 500 used for the rifle order? With so many different manufactories involved in the final project, replacement parts if necessary would be difficult and tedious. Generally, if the purchaser desires it, it would be produced, but how is the back-up handled?
Lubliner.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Would additional parts be made beyond the 500 used for the rifle order? With so many different manufactories involved in the final project, replacement parts if necessary would be difficult and tedious. Generally, if the purchaser desires it, it would be produced, but how is the back-up handled?
Lubliner.

Craig Berry knows more about this process than I do but remember that these parts were not interchangeable. I suppose it would be like a, say, Ford car dealership ordering 500 vehicles from the factory. The dealership knows there is a quick supply chain for needed parts, and so would not necessarily order many replacement / repair parts.
An overseas buyer might well order along with 500 rifle-muskets, say, 60 extra lock springs, 30 extra ramrods, etc. etc.
There might have been a rule of thumb as to extra parts that might be needed, but I sure don't know what that rule of thumb was, or how often it was sued.