1853 Enfield Help in Identification

[1853Enfield]

Hi I just aquired an 1853 Enfield , with a lock plate dated 1868 , It has the Birmingham Proof markings on the Barrel , it also has several markings I cannot identify . It has stamped on the stock and barrel what appears to be the initials "G.E", Also in the stock are the two X's and a V type mark with a I through the center. Anyone who knows about these markings and the place of service for this rifle gladly respond . Thankyou........Sorry about the pictures .

 

[UCVRelics]

We really need some clearer photos and one of the lock-plate and the complete rifle would be very helpful.

 

[1853Enfield]

Best I can do on the Pics.

 

[JOHN42768]

Your lock plate is 1863. I know sometimes hard to make out, but compare the second digit that is an 8 to the last and you will see it is a 3

 

[johan_steele]

The x x is next to the broad arrow denoting Brit military service.

 

[1853Enfield]

Your lock plate is 1863. I know sometimes hard to make out, but compare the second digit that is an 8 to the last and you will see it is a 3

My pictures are not that great , as are my eyes. I just looked at the lockplate with a 40X power magnifier and the date is 1868. The person I aquired the Enfield from believes it might have been used in British Colonies , but has no documentation. That is why I am counting on the experts on this forum to

 

[1853Enfield]

Has anyone any knowledge on what the "G.E " stands for ? The best picture of this "G.E"is the one inside the stock , I am guessing it is a G but appears incomplete , this G.E is stamped on the underside of the barrel , and inside the stock . Thankyou

 

[Lanyard Puller]

The Roman numerals mentioned above are the assembly numbers, used by the each finishers who put the hand fitted parts together. These guns are not interchangeable.
After looking at many hundreds of Enfields through the years I've got to go with @JOHN42768 on the date...1863. You can easily see the difference between the "8" and the last digit "3".
I can find no information on the name behind the " G E " stamp.

 

[Package4]

Hi I just aquired an 1853 Enfield , with a lock plate dated 1868 , It has the Birmingham Proof markings on the Barrel , it also has several markings I cannot identify . It has stamped on the stock and barrel what appears to be the initials "G.E", Also in the stock are the two X's and a V type mark with a I through the center. Anyone who knows about these markings and the place of service for this rifle gladly respond . Thankyou........Sorry about the pictures .

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I have to agree with both @JOHN42768 and @Lanyard Puller, this is a P53 dated 1863, to my knowledge the last P53 was produced a year earlier (1867) making it doubtful of having an 1868 date and this has all the markings of an exported weapon. The conversions to the Snider were well underway, thus zero reason to produce the P53, in fact I find it curious that it was even still being produced in 1867.

 

[1853Enfield]

I have to agree with both @JOHN42768 and @Lanyard Puller, this is a P53 dated 1863, to my knowledge the last P53 was produced a year earlier (1867) making it dthough , one other question oubtful of having an 1868 date and this has all the markings of an exported weapon. The conversions to the Snider were well underway, thus zero reason to produce the P53, in fact I find it curious that it was even still being produced in 1867.

Thanks for the answers , could the P53 have been manufactured and sold commercially to the public after the British went to the Snider ? Most rural people had to still hunt for food. Package4 on the lockplate it clearly reads "1868" I've taken a high powered jewelers loop to it , I wish it were an 1863 though . Also the rear sights are period correct as far as I know but the current period correct sight appears to be added at a later date . The current sights base is 2 1/4" and the impression on the barrel is where a 3'' based sight once sat . I am counting on the expertise of the board to help me out. I wanted an original instead of a reproduction P53 , I live in Dixie and a practice that thousands of Southerners as well as Northerners did after the hostilities were over was to convert their P53's and Springfields into shotguns by turning the rifled muskets back into smoothbores. My neighbor has a Springield modified that way . Anyways Keep me educated on my P53 and thankyou.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

This is a standard 1863 dated Birmingham manufactured Enfield Model 1853 - I noticed when it was offered for auction recently, the seller mis-read the 1863 date as 1868, but it clearly is 1863. You will find the same confusion on the trapdoor springfields, where many breech blocks were stamped "1873" deeply and they are often misread as "1878" - you will find collectors who insist that there a "model 1878" trapdoor, meaning these ones with the deeply stamped "3" that is read as an "8."
The proof markings are standard Birmingham proofmarks.
The marks in the wood are just mating marks so the fellow who put this together could re-fit the parts once they were polished and the wood varnished. It is true that a Broad Arrow mark was used to show British military ownership, but I assure you such a mark was not hidden in a wood recess that would be covered by the buttplate - ownership markings would be stamped where visible. Can you imagine marking these to require the disassembling of dozens or hundreds or thousands of muskets to look for hidden ownership markings to see they were government property?

 

[UCVRelics]

If @Lanyard Puller say's it 63 then its 63!

 

[1853Enfield]

Jeff in Ohio it is clearly and deeply marked 1868 and very deeply . I want to ask about the sights the ones on my P53 are 2, 1/4" long , the barrel has impressions of a previous sight 3" long . My sight has the graduated marks out to 4 hundred . The flip up site has the continuation up to 8 hundred in increment from 5 -8 hundred graduated on the right side . Is this the correct P53 sight ? It also has a small screw which I thought held down the sight but the screw does not secure itself it just spins , so the sight is soldered or glued . Is this the correct sight ?

 

[Package4]

Thanks for the answers , could the P53 have been manufactured and sold commercially to the public after the British went to the Snider ? Most rural people had to still hunt for food. Package4 on the lockplate it clearly reads "1868" I've taken a high powered jewelers loop to it , I wish it were an 1863 though . Also the rear sights are period correct as far as I know but the current period correct sight appears to be added at a later date . The current sights base is 2 1/4" and the impression on the barrel is where a 3'' based sight once sat . I am counting on the expertise of the board to help me out. I wanted an original instead of a reproduction P53 , I live in Dixie and a practice that thousands of Southerners as well as Northerners did after the hostilities were over was to convert their P53's and Springfields into shotguns by turning the rifled muskets back into smoothbores. My neighbor has a Springield modified that way . Anyways Keep me educated on my P53 and thankyou.

Again, production of the P53 ended in 1867, if you look at what we know is an 8, as in the 18, then look at the 63 you can see they are different. As others have stated, the deep stamping has created the appearance of an 8.

Sounds like you have an added sight, they were soldered, not screwed, to my knowledge.

Please trust this group, 2 of whom are some of the most knowledgeable Enfield collectors in the world.

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just jump right in and enjoy.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

The sight on your P53 is a correct period sight. The leaf {the part that lifts up} will have the numbers up to "8" as you noticed along the right edge of the ladder, but on the right side at the top where the "V" notch is will be a "9". It's a 900 yard sight.

The area around the sight especially the area to the rear, as in your photo, was well cleaned and polished before the sight was silver soldered on. This made it a more solid bonding, as they were not {originally} screwed into the barrel. Rear sights are often missing on well used P53s, as they were simply knocked off. If replaced later they usually will show lead all around the base which was never done that messy in the original assembly..

Based solely on the photos you have posted your gun appears to be absolutely original, except for the sling. It is a commercial manufacture intended for local sale or export. To ascertain if it was a CSA purchase would require a detailed inspection for other marks used for these contracts. This has been well covered in other posts on CWT, and in the latest excellent reference to all blockade items for the Confederacy, The English Connection, discounted at collegehillarsenal.com.

 

[1853Enfield]

Lanyard Puller I am looking at the 1868 lockplate with a 40X power jewelers loop , after the prvious comments on it being an 1863 Which I would love I looked at the lockplate with a 60X power loop and it still is an 8 . I appreciate all the assistance I will probably take it to Dixie Gun Works in Union City ,TN . which is a few hundred mile trip in a month or two.

 

[JOHN42768]

Lanyard Puller I am looking at the 1868 lockplate with a 40X power jewelers loop , after the prvious comments on it being an 1863 Which I would love I looked at the lockplate with a 60X power loop and it still is an 8 . I appreciate all the assistance I will probably take it to Dixie Gun Works in Union City ,TN . which is a few hundred mile trip in a month or two.

One more time. Forget the loupe. Put the lockplate photo in your downlaods. Enlarge so you are seeing both the 2nd and last digit at the same time. You will see that the size of the top dot formed by the metal is different in the photo. After that if you still think 1868 then so be it.

 

[Craig L Barry]

Silly thing to argue about...the P53s were not still in production at Birmingham during 1868.

 

[1853Enfield]

One more time. Forget the loupe. Put the lockplate photo in your downlaods. Enlarge so you are seeing both the 2nd and last digit at the same time. You will see that the size of the top dot formed by the metal is different in the photo. After that if you still think 1868 then so be it.

Are you saying that the 1863 Enfield had a 3 that was completely closed ? I have looked at photos, and I have looked under a 60X loop at both the 2nd 8 , and the last digit . The top dot appears roughly the same . Are there pictures that you or anyone has that can show this anomaly like I have . I am not being disresptful or arguing , I have the lockplate in my lap I have used a 40X loop, a lighted 60X loop from all angles Maybe I have misunderstood you , are you stating that last number on some 1863 lockplates are fully enclosed 8's but are to be actually a 3 ? I will try to post a closeup photograph of the year stamped on the lockplate I have a camera that takes very high resolution pictures the camera is great my picture taking skills are not . I need proper lighting sunlight that is weather bad here . Will post tomorrow or next day.