Discussion Rifle Loading Question

[MikeyB]

After ripping the open the cartridge, is the soldier supposed to empty the powder and ball into the rifle and then discard the paper on the floor? Or does he open it and stuff the whole thing in, including the paper and ram it down? Or does it not matter?

 

[RodentRevolution]

After ripping the open the cartridge, is the soldier supposed to empty the powder and ball into the rifle and then discard the paper on the floor? Or does he open it and stuff the whole thing in, including the paper and ram it down? Or does it not matter?

It is weapon dependent but for the Burton (Minié) and Pritchett bullets most of the paper save that immediately around the ball (bullet) would be discarded.

The video having been made by Americans is a bit cheeky about the American system but the outline of the practice is solid.

 

[UCVRelics]

After ripping the open the cartridge, is the soldier supposed to empty the powder and ball into the rifle and then discard the paper on the floor? Or does he open it and stuff the whole thing in, including the paper and ram it down? Or does it not matter?

On most CW musket the paper was not loaded. Here is an excellent vid of the loading drill.

 

[Conquerordie]

The exception might be if you were using say a M1842 with buck and ball rounds. I believe all the paper was loaded into the muzzle and fired.

 

[TexBadger]

On most CW musket the paper was not loaded. Here is an excellent vid of the loading drill.

good video and information... however at 2:25 it sure looks like that "soldier" loaded some paper as it can be seen exiting the muzzle in multiple parts upon firing.

 

[RSMorris]

man, gotta tell ya every video I have ever seen shows them loading the paper.

 

[MikeyB]

Is the purpose of the cap just to create an electric spark to ignite the powder? If so, how come they can't just leave the cap on and use it multiple times and save that step?

 

[UCVRelics]

Is the purpose of the cap just to create an electric spark to ignite the powder? If so, how come they can't just leave the cap on and use it multiple times and save that step?

The cap was a percussion spark and not electric and had to be replaced after every shot.

 

[johan_steele]

Is the purpose of the cap just to create an electric spark to ignite the powder? If so, how come they can't just leave the cap on and use it multiple times and save that step?

It's not electrical but a chemical reaction. 1 use only.

 

[MikeyB]

The cap was a percussion spark and not electric and had to be replaced after every shot.
View attachment 451839

by percussion, meaning it creates a "mini shockwave" that ignites the powder?

 

[thomas aagaard]

good video and information... however at 2:25 it sure looks like that "soldier" loaded some paper as it can be seen exiting the muzzle in multiple parts upon firing.

It is a movie trick.
We see a bullet placed in the muzzle... one that we never see removed from the paper.
Then when he draw the rammer the bullet is gone. So when he is using the rammer it is most likely a empty gun.

So they are not actually firing live ammo, but have used the paper instead.

 

[thomas aagaard]

man, gotta tell ya every video I have ever seen shows them loading the paper.

American style bullets where loaded without the paper.
The British with.
(and the same is the case for a number of other European armies)

maybe you are thinking of videos where they are firing blanks?
when we are firing blanks and have no people in the receiving end we use the ramrod and ram the paper to make both the process and the sound more authentic.

 

[TNBandit]

by percussion, meaning it creates a "mini shockwave" that ignites the powder? Did you ever have a cap gun when you were a kid ? Same principal. Once it's spent it's no good anymore. Or a wooden match. Similar situation. Burnt is burnt. Don't try to complicate a simple system by overthinking it.

 

[thomas aagaard]

After ripping the open the cartridge, is the soldier supposed to empty the powder and ball into the rifle and then discard the paper on the floor? Or does he open it and stuff the whole thing in, including the paper and ram it down? Or does it not matter?

when we are talking smoothbore muskets (both flintlocks from late 17th century until the 1840ties and later percussion muskets) it was common to simply open the cartridge, pour the powder and then ram down the bullet still in the paper. This was quick and sinc eht bullet was very undersized it worked with no issue.

But with rifled muskets you need the bullet (ink any paper) is sufficiently undersized to allow for a quick loading. But then it need to expand instantly to take advantage of the riffling the way out.

The American system used a "naked" bullet.
The British used a system where the paper was still around the bullet.

 

[RodentRevolution]

when we are talking smoothbore muskets (both flintlocks from late 17th century until the 1840ties and later percussion muskets) it was common to simply open the cartridge, pour the powder and then ram down the bullet still in the paper. This was quick and sinc eht bullet was very undersized it worked with no issue.

But with rifled muskets you need the bullet (ink any paper) is sufficiently undersized to allow for a quick loading. But then it need to expand instantly to take advantage of the riffling the way out.

The American system used a "naked" bullet.
The British used a system where the paper was still around the bullet.

With smoothbores and some early rifles the paper acted as a kind of lubricant and indeed was typically greased. With the Minié system there were grooves in the bullets containing lubricant grease. The Burton bullet was an evolution from this hence the drill discarding the paper since that was unnecessary. With the Pritchett bullet there were no grooves and a portion of the cartridge paper was greased instead.

 

[Dan Kohli]

by percussion, meaning it creates a "mini shockwave" that ignites the powder?

Not quite, percussion as in the hammer striking the cap. Black powder isn't quite that shock sensitive. The cap is full of a chemical mixture that is impact sensitive and will burn quickly, causing a spark when struck.

 

[Booner]

Not quite, percussion as in the hammer striking the cap. Black powder isn't quite that shock sensitive. The cap is full of a chemical mixture that is impact sensitive and will burn quickly, causing a spark when struck.

More than likely, it's not the "spark" that sets off the black powder, but the hot gasses produced by the percussion cap.
Balck powder ignites at anywhere from 500-800 degrees F. depending on chemical composition, moisture content, compactness of powder, etc.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

by percussion, meaning it creates a "mini shockwave" that ignites the powder?

Percussion as in strike - as in percussion musical instruments (such as drums).

 

[DixieRifles]

So they are not actually firing live ammo, but have used the paper instead.

I noticed the flying paper. My first thought was he stuffed paper on top of the powder which does two things: a) it packs the powder and keeps it in the barrel in case the barrel is tilted down & b) the packed powder produces a louder report and not the sound of a firecracker in a pipe.
I pack blank loads with paper to celebrate the 4th of July.

 

[Rhea Cole]

The paper acts a wadding to keep the ball in position against the powder. The ball is smaller than the bore, so could shift away from the charge. A gap between the ball & the charge could turn the barrel into a pipe bomb… literally.

One of black powder's virtues is that it cannot be ignited by impact. The makes it extraordinary stable. It can only be ignited by a flame or electrical spark. In the case of a cap, it is a flame from the percussion explosion that sets off the charge. In a flintlock, the spark struck by flint & steel ignites fine powder that then ignites the charge.

Because of its stability, black powder is still used as an initiating charge in modern explosives.

Fulminate of mercury, the substance that is in percussion caps, is extremely sensitive to the slightest impact. My teenage self can testify that simply brushing a broom across fulminate of mercury will result in a satisfying crack!

At sea, cannon were loaded with a wad of cloth rammed on top of the ball. A "cheese of wads" was close at hand during firing. The flaming bits of wad were a very dangerous fire hazard for both attacker & target.

In an unforgettable incident from the Centennial in 1960, an original 12 pound Napoleon was fired as a morning & evening gun in Murfreesboro TN. The totally ignorant gun crew studied a period manual. The initial round was fired down East Main Street from in front of the courthouse door. A full charge of about 2 pounds of black powder was loaded. It had rained during the night, so a damp wad of newspaper was firmly rammed on top of the charge.

For the first time in one hundred years a Napoleon was fired… much to the horror of the large crowd that gathered for the event. The shockwave hit the crowd, "like the kick from a mule.." store windows shattered. The solid wad traveled down East Main & struck the passenger side door of a DeSoto with a resounding boom.

Thus, a wad of paper was essential for efficient firing of muzzleloaders.