Colonel John Hill (1801-1873)

[DixieRifles]

My HILL family traces back to Virginia. They slowly moved through North Carolina and into South Carolina. Jesse Hill (abt 1760- 1820) died in Edgfield County, SC. Our records say that two sons, Joel and John, and a son-in-law, moved to Mississippi soon after his death.

But there are some Family Trees on Ancestry that tries to say one son was this Colonel John Hill(1801-1873).

Find-a-Grave has dates and a few names of children. No further history on him.

In order to make a family connection, I need a few questions answered about this Colonel John Hill.
Where did he live? South Carolina? Then buried in Georgia?
Who was his parents?
Did he serve in the Civil War and what unit did he command?

My Jesse Hill married twice: Mary BREWER in 1778 and Mary Pittman FOWLER before 1794.
I thought all of Jesse's children were from his 2nd wife. Maybe this colonel is from his 1st wife but the date doesn't match. Nothing seems to match.

 

[DixieRifles]

I just checked the 1860 Census and a John Hill of SC does show up. This is the same county that his brother, Joel, had lived until his death in 1853.
In the old days before internet, I checked out a genealogy book on Families of Yalobusha County. And there was a John Hill in the book. I've also met some distant relatives who said their ancestor who first came into Mississippi was John Hill.
Doesn't seem to be the same guy as the Colonel.

 

[lupaglupa]

These things are so hard to prove! And having a more common name, like Hill, just increases the degree of difficulty. I have Mississippi family who came from Edgefield District and the records are slim there. I guess the first thing I'd start with is, have you done a DNA test? If you have and can prove a link to descendants of this man then you have a better motive for trying to figure this out. If you don't have that. my next question would be - what kind of proof are the people on Ancestry giving for the link between this man and your ancestor? Do they have something concrete like a family Bible? All too often I see people put in a kinship just because two people with the same last name lived in the same area. That's not good enough for me!

 

[DixieRifles]

These things are so hard to prove! And having a more common name, like Hill, just increases the degree of difficulty. I have Mississippi family who came from Edgefield District and the records are slim there.

I think it is a case where they would rather have a Colonel in their tree than a farmer who had to leave home and didn't get a family started for another 15 years.

If I could find out who the real Colonel John Hill was, then I can rule him out. But somehow they got the birth dates right. Or maybe I got my dates wrong long time ago before I had internet that helped multiply errors.

 

[DixieRifles]

The John Hill in the 1860 Census was recorded on Page 169, Family No. 1195.

His brother, Joel Hill, had died. His widow, Emily age 48, was recorded on Page 187, Family 1321. Same PO: Oakland.

 

[lupaglupa]

Have you clicked through to the bio of his wife on Find a Grave? It says the Colonel had two prior wives and a large "brood" of children by those women. According to that bio she married Hill in Edgefield, then relocated to Cobb County in 1852.

 

[DixieRifles]

Have you clicked through to the bio of his wife on Find a Grave?

Thanks but still not much info. I'm trying to find out who his father was.

I found another Family Tree info on a website: Descendants of Robert HILL Sr..
I don't know how accurate it is but it also lists Jesse Hill as his father. I have never seen Joel Hill listed with a middle initial "H". I'm sure it stands for Harrington or Halbert. Those families have a lot of connections; three sets of Hill siblings married Halbert siblings.


102. Jesse HILL was born in 1759 in Caroline County, Virginia. He died in 1829 in Edgefield County, S.C..
Jesse married Mary Pittman FOWLER in May 1794. Mary died in 1810 in Edgefield County, S.C..
They had the following children:
292 F i Sallie HILL. Sallie married Thomas GARRETT.
293 F ii Susannah HILL. Susannah married COSSY.
294 M iii William P HILL.
William married (1) MARTHA.
William married (2) Susan CREWS.
+ 295 M iv Colonel John HILL was born on Jan 29 1802. He died on Jun 28 1873.
+ 296 M v Joel H HILL was born on Jan 3 1806. He died on May 26 1853.

===
Another google got a hit on a transcription of a document: Old King William -HOMES AND FAMILIES, published 1897
I don't know if it is referring to the same Colonel but if so then it lists a different Father for him: a James Hill.

"6. Baylor Walker. Bom August 15, 1789. Married Mildred, daughter of Colonel John Hill and granddaughter of James Hill and
Mildred Clopton. "

 

[DixieRifles]

The main reason I posted here is so that I could find Colonel John Hill and identify the State he served with and his unit. Then I might find military pension records that identified his wife and family.

{Edited}
If this John Hill was 59+ by the start of the Civil War, could he have actually served in the War? Or maybe the Mexican War?

 

[2rivcob73]

It is always amazing to see someone trace their lineage back like this!!! keep us posted on your finds!

 

[lupaglupa]

Okay - so I had more time this morning and I did a deeper dive. There certainly seem to be a lot of people on Ancestry stating this Colonel John Hill is the son of Jesse Hill. I could not find any evidence given that was other than a reference to another family tree. A couple of trees linked Col. Hill as the son of a William and a few to an Abner. Those had less links. Again, no records that I could find that would demonstrate the relationship.

@DixieRifles I know you were most interested in the military info. That's pretty scarce too. The family trees that had a military record had a John Hill from Cobb County listed as enlisting in CSA service 31 May 1861 - no other details. I could not replicate that looking through the soldiers and sailors database or Fold3. There are a lot of John Hills who served from Georgia. I could find none who were Colonels. Even reading through the roster of GA troops who served in the Civil War gave me zero results. I also checked records for the Indian Wars, as that would best fit this man's age. I couldn't find that either.

I looked at old Georgia newspapers to see if I could find an obituary or death notice but turned up nothing. I did find a funny article about how common it is to address elderly gentlemen of stature as "Colonel" even when they are not. That made me laugh as I had begun to assume that this John Hill was more of an honorary Colonel than anything else.

All I see that is sure are records from the 1860 and 1870 Census and the words on the tombstone. It may well be that at some time this John Hill served as head of a local militia. Maybe he was a Colonel or maybe he got the "social promotion" that many older gentlemen did in their communities. There was enough belief in his rank that his family wanted him to be remembered that way. But as to his having served as a Colonel during the CW - I can't find it.

That doesn't mean it didn't happen - I fer sure ain't perfect at this!

 

[DixieRifles]

I looked at old Georgia newspapers to see if I could find an obituary or death notice but turned up nothing. I did find a funny article about how common it is to address elderly gentlemen of stature as "Colonel" even when they are not. That made me laugh as I had begun to assume that this John Hill was more of an honorary Colonel than anything else.
. . . . . .
That doesn't mean it didn't happen - I fer sure ain't perfect at this!

I recall another thread where someone was debating this same question.
Thanks for checking into this. I tried looking at other Trees on Ancestry as well as my Hints but I think it is sending me to the faulty Trees that have the same errors that I seem to have. I'm debating about erasing some info---such as his date of birth and death---and see what new Hints might pop up.
The HILL's seem to be more difficult to research than the WILLIAMS or SMITHS. At least there were a ton of them in Virginia and area and they named all their children William and Elizabeth. Years ago, my Aunt paid a researcher to trace our family tree back to Virginia and a William Hill who was a delegate to the Provincial Congress, Hillsboro, North Carolina, in August 1775, and identified as a Baptist minister who gave the invocation at the meeting. I get my Tree messed up when I try to branch off to the other descendants.

 

[lupaglupa]

I'm debating about erasing some info---such as his date of birth and death---and see what new Hints might pop up.

I often open a new page and research a person without the information I already have saved. That lets me look at Ancestry results without erasing anything. I would suggest you try that first and not lose what you have. I have even done really empty searches to see what might be out there that Ancestry isn't linking - trying a search with just a first or last name, or placing the area somewhere new that I think the person might have lived in. It helps to be flexible. And patient. Very, very patient.

 

[DixieRifles]

I often open a new page and research a person without the information I already have saved.

Do you mean opening a new Window Tab and performing a search so I can make a side-by-side comparison? Sometimes I have to have 2 or 3 Windows open. I have to so that I won't get my William's confused. For awhile, I had two William Jr.

 

[lupaglupa]

Do you mean opening a new Window Tab and performing a search so I can make a side-by-side comparison? Sometimes I have to have 2 or 3 Windows open. I have to so that I won't get my William's confused. For awhile, I had two William Jr.

I usually do it in a new tab, yes. The important part is that I do the search without choosing the person suggested in the drop down menu - I just put in the data as if it was a new record. So Ancestry only sees what I type in and none of the other data associated with the record.

 

[Nathanb1]

Have you pulled out a map and checked locations? I often do that to see if there's any logic which might help me understand who the person is or how he/she got there. I have one of those big Rand McNally maps, plus I have state maps from the ones I'm researching. Once I have some locations marked, I can do some line drawing (pencil!) and figure out how they got there. I have actually been able to rule at least one potential GGGrandfather simply because of where he enlisted in the war in Alabama....and the unit he was in. The guy couldn't have been in two places at the same time, and the logical one panned out in the end...

It's not exact, but it's another piece of the puzzle.

 

[DixieRifles]

The important part is that I do the search without choosing the person suggested in the drop down menu - I just put in the data as if it was a new record.

Well, I am not as smart as I have only started a Search on a person in my tree. I just use Hints or check other Trees to see what names they have. I guess I trust the Hints too much.

I have been doing that today for another family name MARTIN. I found a Will for one family and POOF there was a Joel Hill. I think he is the brother of John but can't be sure yet. The HILL and MARTIN families were neighbors in Mississippi.

 

[DixieRifles]

Have you pulled out a map and checked locations? I often do that to see if there's any logic which might help me understand who the person is or how he/she got there. . . . . . Once I have some locations marked, I can do some line drawing (pencil!) and figure out how they got there.

I understand but I don't see how to apply that here.
I thought my original John Hill moved from SC to Mississippi and remained there. I may have to research that more. Whereas, I have nothing that says the Colonel John Hill ever left SC except to move to Georgia.
It is possible that he moved to Mississippi before the War but decided life was better if after the War he moved back to be with family.

Goal now is to pieced together the story of "my" John Hill after the War and where he was buried.

 

[DixieRifles]

Okay. I easily found John Hill in the 1870 Census and 1880 Census living in Yalobusha County Miss. In the 1870, he was listed as living with a son and erroneously has his birth State as Miss. The 1880 Census has him aged 80 and I think living with a new wife---gotta go look at it closer.

BUT, I found another document: Letter of Guardianship dated 1855.
What is a letter of guardianship?
I marked up the names and have posted a portion here.

Okay, I get it. His brother JOEL Hill (my ancestor) died in 1853. The minor children of JOEL Hill were those listed: John, Joel, Egbert, Joshua(don't think I have this name) and Ellen. For example, Joel Pittman Hill was born in 1847 and was my great-grandfather and joined a Mississippi cavalry the last year of the war and he married Elizabeth Watkins Purdie.
That William Purdie was part of the PURDIE family who lived near Joel Hill.

Get that! My Joel Hill was living in the 1880 Census. He is NOT the same Joel Hill buried somewhere in Gawga.

I think I've solved it!!

 

[lupaglupa]

I think I've solved it!!

Huzzah!

 

[DixieRifles]

Well, one minor correction. This Letter is regarding the "Est (estate) of John Hill and other minors". So this John Hill is referring to the oldest minor son of Joel Hill.
But who is the Guardian? Would that be William Purdie?

The complete sentence at the bottom of that clip is: "And the said William Purdie is hereby authorized and required faithfully to execute his office and trust as guar-dian aforesaid to deliver unto the office of the Clerk of the Court afresiad within three months from the date hereof, an inventory on oath of all the estate real and personal of said minors: ALso annually or whenever the? unto required by lawful authority, to render a just and true account of his guardianship, and to do and perform whatsoever of him as guardian . . . "

{Edited--- I thought I would just insert this instead of creating a new post and copying everyone}

I had to check out who this William Purdie (aka Purdy) was. I knew there were family connections but was not sure about any William.
I had to go back and review the Notes that I had added to FOLD3 for the 1860 Census. The Census recorded his name as William PRENTIS which was totally wrong. This was confirmed by the names and ages of the children.
One child in this census was Elizabeth, age 8. This Elizabeth Purdie married the "Joel Hill" who is the 2nd minor child mentioned in this Letter of Guardianship. Recall these were children of Joel Hill(1806-1853), or the brother of John Hill(age 80 in 1880 Census). This shows the close relationship that William Purdie had with Joel Hill(d.1853) and John Hill. The minor Joel (P.) Hill married Elizabeth Purdie.

That one is simple. It gets really confusing in the next generation when two Purdie brothers lived together a long time as bachelors. When the married brother dies, the widow and child move in with the 2 bachelors but she finally decides to marry one of them who is 30 years older. In the meantime, one brother, James S. Purdie, rides over to the Hill homestead and takes teenager James S. Hill home with him---and he stays for several years. James S Hill also remains a bachelor until he reaches 40 and finally marries my GrandMother--- who was only 15 years younger.

The first HILL to arrive in Mississippi was the Joel Hill, the brother of John Hill. I carry on the JOEL name from my Gr-Grandfather---with a skip in one generation as that name was taken by a brother, i.e., Joel Hill born 1872. The CS Battle flags icon indicate Veterans.