Capt or Col Quantrill?

[archieclement]

After orginally being self raised and commissioned under the partisan ranger act.

There seems no doubt as to captaincy as after arriving in the Confederacy, in special orders 45 Maj Gen Hindmann ordered Maj J P Wilson to proceed at once to muster into the Confederate Service for 3 years, or the duration of the war, Captain Quantill Missouri cavalry company of 76 men rank and file on Nov 18th 1862

Then special Orders 46 by Hindman again has Capt Quantrill and his Missouri company report to Gen Marmaduke for duty.

The only period when he calls himself Col is after Lawrence during the trip to the south, Leslie speculates Holts recruits and Quantrill's formed a regt for the trip, and Quantrill may have been elected Col by the men as the majority were guerrillas and would have resented being under Col Holt.

Leslie reference to author of The Devil Knows how to Ride, a Quantrill bio

 

[James N.]

He was probably anticipating raising a regimental-sized unit following his success at Lawrence and "adopted" the higher rank; John S. Mosby did something similar when he first began as a partisan ranger, even posing for his photo in a captain's uniform when he was still only a lieutenant.

 

[UCVRelics]

I also think it was self appointed. Here are his Fold3 records which are a good read. There are more US arrest warrants in his file than CS records which he signs Capt on all of them. You may have to play with a few to read.

 

[Stone in the wall]

Got a good laugh watching a General Quantrill in the movie "Red Mountain" a week or two ago.

 

[Patrick H]

I think the purpose of the Richmond trip was to seek a colonel's commission, and I think he was unsuccessful. However, this has been put forth by quite a few authors and it is possible that they are all just parroting each other. If he referred to himself as "colonel" after that, I believe it was self-professed.

 

[archieclement]

I think the purpose of the Richmond trip was to seek a colonel's commission, and I think he was unsuccessful. However, this has been put forth by quite a few authors and it is possible that they are all just parroting each other. If he referred to himself as "colonel" after that, I believe it was self-professed.

I think alot of what has been recorded on guerrillas is simply parroting others, and unfortunately alot was parroted from Connelly who has been generally discredited......

The only time we have evidence of Q calling himself Col is after the rendezvous at Perdee's farm to go to Texas, both before and shortly after the trip anything written by Q was signed as Capt. If they indeed formed the 1st Regt, 1st brigade, Army of the South for the trip, the practice would have been for the men to elect a Col of the Regt.

 

[Borderruffian]

His original commission under the Partisan Ranger Act was Capt of Scouts, there is no record of his promotion past that grade, seems WCQ self promoted to Colonel.

 

[archieclement]

His original commission under the Partisan Ranger Act was Capt of Scouts, there is no record of his promotion past that grade, seems WCQ self promoted to Colonel.

If he was elected, thats not self promoted. we do know when the regt was supposedly formed, as several sourced have said starting with Connelly , there was a commissioned Col there, Col Holt, but in the Baxter springs communiques it was Col Quantrill, Why would Col Holt defer to a Capt, unless he knew the men had elected Q Col of the Regt and not him? Col Holt doesn't seem to have alleged being kidnapped...…..

Upon arriving in Texas as the temporary command disbanded, he reverted to using the title of Capt, The only time he signed anything Col himself seems to have been during the trip south with the 1st Regt

But yes he was orginally a Capt under the partisan ranger act, until being sworn into regular CSA service by Maj Wilson also as a Capt.

 

[James N.]

His original commission under the Partisan Ranger Act was Capt of Scouts, there is no record of his promotion past that grade, seems WCQ self promoted to Colonel.

Mosby must've been pretty unusual in that he began his career as captain of a company of scouts or rangers in early 1863 and received regular promotions as his command grew, the first to major of a three-company battalion, then lieutenant colonel, and finally in 1865 colonel of what had by then grown into a full regiment.

A definite difference between the two was likely that Mosby's became the only officially sanctioned partisan ranger unit in an area that was much closer to Richmond and that he was actually reporting to JEB Stuart personally, and after his death, directly to Robert E. Lee, who valued his services. "Way Out West" Quantrill was only one of several competing commands, each working more or less on their own.

 

[Borderruffian]

If he was elected, thats not self promoted. we do know when the regt was supposedly formed, as several sourced have said starting with Connelly , there was a commissioned Col there, Col Holt, but in the Baxter springs communiques it was Col Quantrill, Why would Col Holt defer to a Capt, unless he knew the men had elected Q Col of the Regt and not him? Col Holt doesn't seem to have alleged being kidnapped...…..

Upon arriving in Texas as the temporary command disbanded, he reverted to using the title of Capt, The only time he signed anything Col himself seems to have been during the trip south with the 1st Regt

But yes he was orginally a Capt under the partisan ranger act, until being sworn into regular CSA service by Maj Wilson also as a Capt.

WCQ never commanded a formation big enough to rate a Colonel unless you could the consolidated Lawrence Raid formation and then only maybe. He was commissioned Capt of scouts whether he was" elected" Col or not doesn't matter he could have " elected" Grand Sultan" of Ahbudobie the official CS records don't list him as such.

 

[archieclement]

WCQ never commanded a formation big enough to rate a Colonel unless you could the consolidated Lawrence Raid formation and then only maybe. He was commissioned Capt of scouts whether he was" elected" Col or not doesn't matter he could have " elected" Grand Sultan" of Ahbudobie the official CS records don't list him as such.

Again historians Connelly and Leslie make the assertion they formed the 1st regt, I have just relayed their assertion and reasoning. We do know forming temporary regt for the trip south had been done before.

Regt often elected their officers, They still had to be approved and recognized, however in a temporary command that wouldn't happen as the regt would be disbanded rather then entered into service as is, thereby not requiring approval, it wouldn't mean the election didn't take place however or that the regt didn't exist for the short period of making the trip south

If your disputing Connelly or Leslie that they organised a temporary regt, its your prerogative, however if they are correct, he would have been a acting Col for that period.

 

[farrargirl]

from the Alabama Department of Archives and History: web address at top...

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I've got to say it....

Quantrill's rank was "Crazy hijacking Bandit who wasn't happy with Captain so promoted himself to Colonel because it sounded better"

That's my interpretation of his rank!

 

[archieclement]

Actually if Leslie and other historians are correct, none of his ranks were self promoted.

 

[Frank Watson]

...he was actually reporting to JEB Stuart personally, and after his death, directly to Robert E. Lee...

My first thought was that was probably who a lot of Southern officers reported directly to after their death, but then I reread it.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Quantrill’s Men Reunion, Independence, Mo. | Community and Conflict Photo Archive

I just came across this link. I don't know if the picture is copyright free so I didn't post the picture. I was looking for photos of CW reunions and this one popped up. In a way I was kind of surprised because I didn't expect so many of them to be left. For one thing, guerrillas don't usually have long lives and two, I didn't expect, as they aged to want to necessarily have reunions over the things they did as very young men. Were they considered honorable veterans compared to other CSA veterans? I didn't think so but maybe I'm wrong. Please educate me on this.

 

[Frank Watson]

If for "honorable veteran" status, it probably depends on who you ask:

"But Quantrill and his men were no more bandits than the men on the other side. I've been to reunions of Quantrill's men two or three times. All they were trying to do was protect the property on the Missouri side of the line..."

~ President Harry S Truman

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Even during the war there was jealousy and sometimes outright hatred of commands like Quantrill's or Mosby's Confederates in the ranks and officer corps. A lot of Confederate soldiers really resented men who stayed near to home, and as I bet they perceived, could have a roof over their heads when it rained or snowed, and be near a fireplace, while they were out in that trying to sleep. Not to mention how they could get to plunder the Yanks supplies a lot easier.

If there was resentment of Bushwhackers, or even better sanctioned partisan outfits like Mosby's, it went back to that as "dishonorable", than any other acts I would think.

Of course that's all my suspicions of something I'm not well read on, after all I don't think Quantrill's men were big and prominent at reunions like the Gettysburg one, like others who weren't even at the battle.

 

[Stone in the wall]

Quantrill’s Men Reunion, Independence, Mo. | Community and Conflict Photo Archive

I just came across this link. I don't know if the picture is copyright free so I didn't post the picture. I was looking for photos of CW reunions and this one popped up. In a way I was kind of surprised because I didn't expect so many of them to be left. For one thing, guerrillas don't usually have long lives and two, I didn't expect, as they aged to want to necessarily have reunions over the things they did as very young men. Were they considered honorable veterans compared to other CSA veterans? I didn't think so but maybe I'm wrong. Please educate me on this.

Yes, if they were enlisted and still in good standing. Mosby wouldn't have men who had deserted from other regiments. But I don't know about Quantrill?

 

[mofederal]

I believe Quantrill's commission was supposedly for Lt. Colonel. I don't think he had a real commission, nor was he really an elected captain either. I believe he wanted to be called a Captain. I forgot about the Hindman Special Order, but I still doubt it, because Quantrill, wasn't very liked by his own men very much. I wonder then who elected Todd, Anderson and the rest?. Quantrill did not have the power to appoint officers, so when and where were the elections held. Both Todd and Anderson held him pretty much in contempt. I believe Todd threatened to kill him. I know he lays low quite a bit of 1864. It has been theorized he spent much of 1864 with Kate King getting drunk. Quantrill made an appearance at the debacle at Fayette, where he advised against the attack there.