Sheridan Philip Sheridan

[Bee]

The truth is that Warren probably should have been relieved in June 1864, but Grant, for whatever reason, couldn't pull the trigger. Warren was the worst sort of subordinate: the smartest guy in the room who knew he was the smartest guy in the room who questioned everything and seemed utterly incapable of just saying, "yes, sir." Perhaps it was that he actually was the smartest guy in the room. I won't argue for a moment that he should have been relieved. Indeed, he should have.

However, the specific reason why he was relieved by Sheridan was an injustice that happened because Grant lacked the moral courage to relieve him on his own. Instead, he left it to Sheridan, who thought nothing of ruining men's careers. That the court of inquiry exonerated Warren should tell you all you need to know.

Excellent response. One of the great benefits of this forum is that I actually get to converse with the authers that I read. You answered, confirmed what I was looking for: did Sheridan do the housekeeping on Warren for Grant. I actually went to the OR on the court of inquiry last night and read through the bulk of the proceedings. It was like sitting in on it, myself. Warren spoke well.

 

[major bill]

Some hard fighting agressive Generals are loved, some hated. Does the side the general fought on come into play? If Sheridan had been a Confederate general rather than a Union general, would some of our forum members change their view on Sheridan? This could go both ways.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Some hard fighting agressive Generals are loved, some hated. Does the side the general fought on come into play? If Sheridan had been a Confederate general rather than a Union general, would some of our forum members change their view on Sheridan? This could go both ways.

I can tell you without even the slightest hesitation that my opinion that he was a wretched human being and no more than a very mediocre general would not change no matter what uniform he wore.

 

[Jamieva]

Warren at his heart was a top notch topographical engineer. he had never commanded more than a brigade when he got promoted to Major General and given a corps command. It was a bad marriage to start. I agree with Eric, there was ample reasons to relieve Warren well before Five Forks but forwhatever reason Grant never had the guts to pull the trigger on that decision

 

[wausaubob]

"Grant the Butcher" thread is over there, not here. I think you are on the wrong thread.

LOL.

 

[Specster]

It hurts to get beaten but to be used by a drooling idiot really hurts.

I dont know, historian James McPherson spoke of Sheridans actions at Cedar Creek as possibly the best in- field leadership of the war.

 

[Irishtom29]

I agree with Eric, there was ample reasons to relieve Warren well before Five Forks but forwhatever reason Grant never had the guts to pull the trigger on that decision

Whatever the reason for Grant's reluctance to getting rid of Warren it wasn't a lack of guts. Keep in mind he relieved McClernand who had a very big stick, as we say in Illinois. In comparison Warren was a nobody.

 

[KansasFreestater]

He seriously compromised the Union's chances during the Overland campaign by taking off on a private expedition, mostly to get out from under Meade's command and stay out as long as he could. His alleged motivation was to "whip Jeb Stuart", but when he had a chance to fight the Confederate cavalry on favorable terms at Beaver Dam Station he rode away. He only fought at Yellow Tavern because Stuart placed his command in Sheridan's path. He made no effort to assist the advance of the main army.

Grant in the Overland campaign tried repeatedly to get around Lee's flank, and was narrowly forestalled time after time. The lack of cavalry was a serious handicap to an army on the offensive. Sheridan - and Grant who let him go - may have forfeited an opportunity to defeat the ANV in May 1864.

Grant had a huge blind spot with respect to Phil Sheridan. He was just goofy about the guy, and would let him do nearly whatever he pleased. Sheridan was a showboater in many ways, but Grant tended to have a soft spot for anyone who was aggressive. Sheridan was one of the guys who led the spontaneous assault up Mission Ridge at Chattanooga, and that may have been where he first won Grant's heart.

 

[KansasFreestater]

Excellent response. One of the great benefits of this forum is that I actually get to converse with the authers that I read. You answered, confirmed what I was looking for: did Sheridan do the housekeeping on Warren for Grant. I actually went to the OR on the court of inquiry last night and read through the bulk of the proceedings. It was like sitting in on it, myself. Warren spoke well.

Bee, you are awesome. One of the most diligent CW scholars here, I think. Which is why your comments tend to carry weight.

 

[Bee]

Bee, you are awesome. One of the most diligent CW scholars here, I think. Which is why your comments tend to carry weight.

Oh, gosh, Kathy, those are words of honour that I hope to live up to. I have an insatiable appetite for learning

 

[KansasFreestater]

The removal of Warren seems to be a defining event in how some have come to view Sheridan, so that I have searched around to try and get as many perspectives on this as possible. Below is an interesting commentary on Sheridan's actions, because it separates the "fairness" of the removal from "right" to do so by the discretion left to him [Sheridan] by his commander, Grant.

Far more interesting is the debate over the relationship between Sheridan and V Corps commander Gouverneur K. Warren. Warren had enjoyed an uneven record as a corps commander and had poor relationships with Grant, George G. Meade, and Sheridan stemming from the first weeks of the Overland Campaign. These feeling resurfaced when Sheridan learned that he would have to settle for working with Warren rather than being given Horatio Wright's VI Corps for his swing around the Confederate right, although Wright had fought ably under Sheridan in the Shenandoah Valley. One suspects that Grant took the unusual step of authorizing Sheridan to relieve Warren on the spot should Sheridan deem it necessary in part to calm Sheridan's irritation about having Warren instead of Wright. In the battle that followed, Sheridan found fault with Warren's performance, and relieved him of command. Believing that Sheridan's action was unjust, Warren spent the remainder of his life seeking a court of inquiry, which was blocked by Grant as general and president and did not take place until after Grant returned to private life. Whether Sheridan was fair is one question, but he clearly had the right to exercise the discretion left him by Grant, and he preferred to have V Corps commanded by Charles Griffin. Given the lack of confidence several generals had in Warren, perhaps it would have been wiser to relieve him of field command during the previous winter. To this day both Sheridan and Warren have their partisans https://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/april-1-1865-five-forks/​

Bee, "Our Guy" had many flaws, and surely one of the biggest -- I mean, it makes me embarrassed for him! -- was his overweening trust in Phil Sheridan. Yes, Sheridan had an awful lot to do with bringing R.E. Lee to heel at Appomattox, but the whole thing with Warren, that went on for so many years, just makes me kind of sick.

 

[hanna260]

I say this as one of Grants long time big supporters (like embarassedly big) but I do not think him blocking that court of inquiry had one hoot to do with him not wanting to testify against Warren and embarrass him, like one poster suggested. Grant could have a hard time admitting he was wrong.

As for Sheridan, I'm certainly not going to say he wasn't aggressive but he also didn't really yield all that impressive results in the long term. To my mind, Five Forks was his greatest moment.

 

[wausaubob]

In his auto biography Grant stated that it was his fault that Warren had not been assigned to other duties earlier. That Sheridan relieving Warren in that was what unfortunate. If he had been called to testify about Warren he would have to explain why Warren had to be relieved. Burnside was relieved, and still Grant could visit Burnside in Rhode Island.
Warren was a hero in the North. But he was not a very good field commander.

 

[Irishtom29]

...but the whole thing with Warren, that went on for so many years, just makes me kind of sick.

Well, Warren could've just taken his relief in stride and gone on about his business; many other corps commanders were relieved or pushed out without making a big fuss over it, and I think some were better soldiers than Warren. Had Warren soldiered in the West or not been a "hero of Gettysburg" I doubt there'd be much talk of his relief today or much sympathy for him.

 

[KansasFreestater]

Well, Warren could've just taken his relief in stride and gone on about his business; many other corps commanders were relieved or pushed out without making a big fuss over it, and I think some were better soldiers than Warren. Had Warren soldiered in the West or not been a "hero of Gettysburg" I doubt there'd be much talk of his relief today or much sympathy for him.

True. Who knows, he might have lived longer if he hadn't carried his grudge for so long. Stress like that can raise your blood pressure, give you ulcers, weaken your immune system, and do other things that can put you in an early grave.

Then again, I understand the desire for justice/vindication. It sucks to be disrespected or slandered.

 

[Rebforever]

Grant had a huge blind spot with respect to Phil Sheridan. He was just goofy about the guy, and would let him do nearly whatever he pleased. Sheridan was a showboater in many ways, but Grant tended to have a soft spot for anyone who was aggressive. Sheridan was one of the guys who led the spontaneous assault up Mission Ridge at Chattanooga, and that may have been where he first won Grant's heart.

I would guess General Grant figured he had a pyromaniac in his army another nut case wouldn't hurt anything!

 

[wausaubob]

Many of them were relieved but had offers for other assignments. Some of them took these assignments and did good work.

 

[wausaubob]

War means fighting and fighting means killing.
It is not a school dance or a baseball team. It promotes aggressive killers.
The winning Union generals, including Sheridan, all have critics. Because they were fighting a war instead of hoping their pretty armies would make the Confederates see the error of their ways.

 

[Bee]

Bee, "Our Guy" had many flaws, and surely one of the biggest -- I mean, it makes me embarrassed for him! -- was his overweening trust in Phil Sheridan. Yes, Sheridan had an awful lot to do with bringing R.E. Lee to heel at Appomattox, but the whole thing with Warren, that went on for so many years, just makes me kind of sick.

I say this as one of Grants long time big supporters (like embarassedly big) but I do not think him blocking that court of inquiry had one hoot to do with him not wanting to testify against Warren and embarrass him, like one poster suggested. Grant could have a hard time admitting he was wrong.

I agree with both of you.

It saddened me when I was reading the transcripts of the Court of Inquiry, that I knew ahead of time that Warren was not going to live to see the results. As mentioned earlier, Warren had his problems, but let go much longer than it should have.

I am compelled to look into the relationship between Grant and Sheridan, further.

 

[Rebforever]

[QUOTE="wausaubob, post: 1534424, member: 20113"]War means fighting and fighting means killing.
It is not a school dance or a baseball team. It promotes aggressive killers.
The winning Union generals, including Sheridan, all have critics. Because they were fighting a war instead of hoping their pretty armies would make the Confederates see the error of their ways.[/QUOTE]

By General Nathan Bedford Forrest!