Lee Deification of Robert E Lee

[C. Kelp]

@CMWinkler also i don't doubt lee's abilities but his style was wrong for the confederacy.

 

[Tin cup]

Why should they? Wanting their freedom from an intrusive government would mean something!

They sure adopted an even MORE intrusive Government!

Kevin Dally

 

[C. Kelp]

I believe that Lee being the gentleman that he was, and aside from his being fully engaged with his other commitments after the war, probably did not wish to fight the war all over again, albeit with the pen.

i would only point out that he searched for something to do and did turn down lucrative offers to use his name. but he had time. i think he chose the university because it was in a sense PC. i agree that he did not want to stir the pot.

 

[C. Kelp]

They sure adopted an even MORE intrusive Government!

Kevin Dally

the confederacy wasn't intrusive ?
edit, sorry that is for @Rebforever

 

[Rebforever]

They sure adopted an even MORE intrusive Government!

Kevin Dally

Your opinion is noted.

 

[John Winn]

It is a very odd quirk of human nature that seeks to find heroes, and then seeks to destroy their heroes' credibility by finding naughtiness in their past. It is very curious, as if we cannot accept that someone can looked up to or admired, but has to be destroyed because they were not perfect.

Indeed and well said. I can't quite put my finger on it precisely but it has something to do with the general feeling that anybody with any sort of power - certainly any authority figures but also could just be a successful entertainer - is somehow undeserving and taking advantage of the average person so as to lord it over us or get rich off us and we need to pop their bubbles as some kind of psychological defense. We've just become jaded as a result of so much obvious corruption and manipulation. At the same time we could really use a hero or three but somehow I just don't see how anybody can pass the test these days. Popping those bubbles is now a profession and the obsession of thousands of internet monsters. And they aren't content with today's potential players; they've got to go back and vilify all the heroes of yesteryear too. Very sad.

 

[CMWinkler]

my point is that lee is almost always described as "a great Christian". who else is ? why is that always thrown in with lee ? what has he done to exemplify jesus's way ? the bible was used to sanction slavery and part of the lost cause tenets is that africans were better off being converted and protected by a christian society . lee was a man and flawed and was no more christian than anyone else and in my opinion much less. that does not mean he was not a good man and i am starting to understand just how conflicted he was. but that also spills over into his military career to no good ends. as for reconstruction , i am still waiting on anything he did to help reunion except keep quiet which was probably hard for him.
someone brought up forrest. that is a good example. he founded the kkk (supposedly) an organization that promotes christianity, but are they christian ?

As I said, you are entitled to your views. Forrest did not found the KKK. You seem to be a great judge of others religious beliefs and how those manifest themselves in their lives. I think that ends the extent of our discussion on these issues.

 

[CMWinkler]

@CMWinkler also i don't doubt lee's abilities but his style was wrong for the confederacy.

I had previously asked who you would have put in his place, but I did not see your reply.

 

[diane]

Indeed and well said. I can't quite put my finger on it precisely but it has something to do with the general feeling that anybody with any sort of power - certainly any authority figures but also could just be a successful entertainer - is somehow undeserving and taking advantage of the average person so as to lord it over us or get rich off us and we need to pop their bubbles as some kind of psychological defense. We've just become jaded as a result of so much obvious corruption and manipulation. At the same time we could really use a hero or three but somehow I just don't see how anybody can pass the test these days. Popping those bubbles is now a profession and the obsession of thousands of internet monsters. And they aren't content with today's potential players; they've got to go back and vilify all the heroes of yesteryear too. Very sad.

It's always good to check for feet of clay. Probably the worst is when kids find out a hero - maybe an athlete, maybe a singer or something like that - is privately a total jerk and/or pervert. When we actually had a real press and real journalists, there was usually something somebody could point out that would give a heads up maybe so-n-so wasn't that great, but now it's so seamlessly done it's almost impossible to see anything but the created image - pretty unhappy thing when the Dorian Grey portrait falls out of the attic.

 

[C. Kelp]

I had previously asked who you would have put in his place, but I did not see your reply.

in retrospect i am not sure. i will give it more thought and maybe start a new thread. but they didn't look and lee's early success cemented his position. he took chances and was lucky but his overall strategy was wrong for the confederacy. the south did not have to win. i understand the argument that the south didn't have time but time could be bought and men could not.
i said that forrest SUPPOSEDLY founded the kkk .

edited by moderator jgg

 

[Bee]

the south did not have to win.

Not following you with this statement.

 

[CMWinkler]

in retrospect i am not sure. i will give it more thought and maybe start a new thread. but they didn't look and lee's early success cemented his position. he took chances and was lucky but his overall strategy was wrong for the confederacy. the south did not have to win. i understand the argument that the south didn't have time but time could be bought and men could not.

What strategy should the Confederacy had pursued?

i said that forrest SUPPOSEDLY founded the kkk but you missed the point because of your bias . the troubles caused by "great christians" is well documented.

You did say supposedly and then put out something not true. My "bias" had nothing to do with my pointing out it was incorrect. Your animus toward Christians may color your views. By the way, Forrest was not a Christian until late in his life, despite his wife's constant efforts.

 

[C. Kelp]

You seem to be a great judge of others religious beliefs and how those manifest themselves in their lives.

i was only responding to this

 

[C. Kelp]

i don't know why we can't discuss it but christianity had a huge influence on lee's life, views, actions, and decisions, i am learning, and the conflict and politics of the war, the old south, reconstruction (which the kkk did and does promote [edit to add word on proof read] christianity, my point there), and jim crow. it is also part of the virtues almost always attributed to lee, and is a major tenent of the lost cause, which involves his deification or divinity .
divine - godlike; characteristic of or befitting a deity - of superhuman or surpassing excellence
is this aspect off limits ?

 

[unionblue]

Your opinion is noted.

Again, not opinion, fact.

Read Southern Rights: Political Prisoners and the Myth of Confederate Constitutionalism, by Mark E. Neely Jr.

 

[C. Kelp]

What strategy should the Confederacy had pursued?

start a thread, i have been talking about lee and he was wrong.

 

[cash]

No. Simple facts from Catton.

I always thought that Erasmus Keyes, an officer who served with Lee in the antebellum army as well as commanded a corps in the Army of the Potomac against Lee during The War, said it best: "Even though Lee was exempt from every form and degree of snobbery, his sense of superiority and fitness to command" were undeniable. "No man could stand in his presence and not recognize his capacity and acknowledge his moral force."

Still more deification.

 

[jgoodguy]

Not following you with this statement.

To win its independence, the CSA just had to avoid losing. At some point the Union would give up. In theory anyway.

 

[jgoodguy]

start a thread, i have been talking about lee and he was wrong.

Please be aware that bickering will attract staff attention.

 

[cash]

Forrest was decidedly not a god!

That's blasphemy in some circles!